#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Striker44]

What I was trying to show is just how close WAR is to WHM and the other healers, and how much PLD is going away from the typical HPS of the other tanks (GNB and DRK).

If any one person in the party is using these tools, they gather data for the entire party, so it does include some people who won't bother with these tools otherwise (but it doesn't include everyone playing the game).

That's what I was interested in. Unfortunate to say, but the data then isn't a "median" dungeon run. Even if it's gathering data from a party, I'd gather the huge majority of your typical, average players aren't running FFlogs, so very little data from the actual "median" party is being included there. What you're seeing is what mainly happens among relatively top-tier players, not your typical folks.

[GoodPerson]

That's what I was interested in. Unfortunate to say, but the data then isn't a "median" dungeon run. Even if it's gathering data from a party, I'd gather the huge majority of your typical, average players aren't running FFlogs, so very little data from the actual "median" party is being included there. What you're seeing is what mainly happens among relatively top-tier players, not your typical folks.

As Bole(or was it someone else mentioned?) Random people could be recording , and then uploading for literally no reason beyond a whim. I believe you can even have ACT set up to do it entirely automatically as long as you have it running, meaning logs actually encompasses a much larger net than what would initially make it seem. Even in and during completely random Roulette runs.
Edit: Actually, the character you're posting on is also logged on FFlogs with about 10 recordings, further proving Bole's point

Also, the score covers both the lower ranges, and the higher ranges ("Score" being mostly the median or average player with "Max" being what you'd actually call "top-tier players"

This is probably a better representation of what they mean, this being the actual healing-per-second, which as you can see, Warrior is only 200~hps shy of matching WHM:

[Rolder50]

That's what I was interested in. Unfortunate to say, but the data then isn't a "median" dungeon run. Even if it's gathering data from a party, I'd gather the huge majority of your typical, average players aren't running FFlogs, so very little data from the actual "median" party is being included there. What you're seeing is what mainly happens among relatively top-tier players, not your typical folks.

Dungeons don't generally get logged because not even top tier players really care about dungeon performance. But I would also wager that a majority of Savage and especially Ultimate raids end up logged, since people care more about those numbers and only one person in the group needs to do it.

[Gember]

Hey guys, I collected more feedback regarding this strike. There are some of the same links posted in previous pages already, but I decided to bundle them all together in case people have missed them. (Also, what is up with the tags in this thread now? xD)
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News

Final Fantasy 14 Healers Are Going On Strike Over Dawntrail Changes
https://www.thegamer.com/final-fanta...trail-changes/

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Reddit:

#FFXIVHealerStrike on the Forums
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...on_the_forums/

Party Mitigation: The Elephant in the Healers' Room
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus..._healers_room/

"Whats Up with the healer strike"
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...healer_strike/

"How do we make healers more engaging without nerfing the other roles?"
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...aging_without/

How can we make healing more engaging without creating additional points of social friction for new, casual, or low-skill players?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...aging_without/

#FFXIVHealerStrike on the Forums. (FFXIV Reddit)
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...on_the_forums/
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[Gember]

Content Creators:

Aitherea: "The healer strike has a point"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI_z9yVIvZY&t=1124s

Arthars: "HUH? What is Healer Strike?"
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2170924...ives&sort=time Skip to 14:00!
This is an unedited twitch video. You may have to skim through some parts, but he does give his opinion on the strike.

Cole Evyx: FFXIV Healer Strike! HUGE CONTROVERSY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpRUXedEZ-M&t=1s

Loki Goldnight: LOOKING IN TO THE HEALER STRIKE
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0w0gQjIFUY&t=1s
There is a 4 part series you can find on his YouTube channel. There may or may not be more coming soon.

Xenosys Vex: "To a small extent, they are not wrong."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm_FRRjl7Gc Skip to 1:26:10!!
This is an unedited vod, so you may have to skim through the conversation. There may be an edited video of this posted soon.

ZepLIVE: HEALER STRIKE?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg_-J2AMh0U&t=4488s
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[Kazmarek]

I could tell you that it matches my experience, but providing data makes a more compelling argument.

But if more than 50% of the WAR players aren't even using their free heals, then people shouldn't have so many issues with them being nerfed? It seems like more than 50% of the WAR players would agree that they're indeed busted and unnecessary?

We've already established that the forums are used by a very small group of people, therefore this healer strike is being supported by a very small group of people. So following your logic, why would it matter it healers get changed or not if it's only a very small amount of players?

Come on. We can do better than this sort of logic.

I'm editing this post in response to the person below me. "The same can be said about your opinion." Yeah, sure, it can be, but maybe we could have a productive discussion if people stopped thinking so emotionally and stopped trying to hit "the other side" with a bunch of "gotchas." This thread's at 300 pages now, 95% of which are just complete crap. Hold yourselves to a higher standard.

[lulunami]

We've already established that the forums are used by a very small group of people, therefore this healer strike is being supported by a very small group of people. So following your logic, why would it matter it healers get changed or not if it's only a very small amount of players?

Come on. We can do better than this sort of logic.

The same can be said about your opinion or my opinion. Yet you care enough to post in this thread.

[Local_Custard]

woo page 300!
You're one away from 300 likes too ^^

[Eorzean_username]

So you're going to run Aurum Vale with no healer? Dzemael Darkhold? Dusk Vigil? Bardam's Mettle? Doma Castle, maybe? Doing full normal pulls, no stopping in between to take breaks and let skills come back? Easy peasy without a healer. And no cheating using someone like a RDM or SMN (lol) either

You have successfully reached a point of understanding regarding the manner in which Healing as a Role begins to break-down at higher levels due to the excessive overabundance of Healing/Barrier/Mitigation tools that continue to be piled-into Job-kits, without an appropriately-commensurate increase in pressure to use those tools.

Have you tried unsubbing because of your unhappiness? No? Still giving Square a monthly subscription and buying the expansion every time? Well no wonder they're ignoring your feedback, you're telling them one thing and doing the complete opposite.

This is disingenuous, and has also been addressed multiple times already.

One of the early and explicitly-discussed points was that flatly-unsubscribing does not make-clear exactly where the problem is, merely that people "lost interest" for "some reason". Continuing to play, while explicitly avoiding the Healer Role, makes explicitly-clear that the Healer Role is the problem, especially when that's paired with a 300-page Thread about why people are explicitly not playing the Healer Role.

FFXIV's producer is on-record, nearly-countless times, as stating that various "[things]" was changed because subscribed players offered feedback that they didn't like it.

Therefore, your entire premise is blatantly-false, and your condescending admonishments are based on reasoning that a small amount of consideration would make-clear as obviously-fallacious.

I mean it's true. Why listen to people who don't know what they're talking about?

Indeed.

So instead of listening to the logical counters, you cover your ears and call anything you disagree with "bait."

I feel like you are in no position to make appeals to "logic" as your weapon, because you have already repeatedly-demonstrated your fundamental-inability to apply logical thinking correctly, ie, not verifying that your premises are even true before reasoning to a conclusion from them.

Anyway, I pretty much never do something like this, but because you insist on trying to portray yourself as some sort of victim whose "voice of reason" is being treated unfairly by the foul and unreasonable Healers here, this is a compilation of your posts in this thread. In addition to being consistently smug and abrasive, you have also contributed almost nothing productive to the actual discussion or topic, continue to pettily (and proudly) antagonise people, and it is also abundantly-clear that you have no actual argument, but simply an absolute obsession with your fear that the rebalancing of FFXIV's Trinity System might — even hypothetically — result in the loss of your ability to solo-carry Dungeons as Warrior, which seems to be your only true concern beneath the veil of nonsense that you keep lobbing as distractions.

How about, if you want to be taken seriously, you uncover your ears, stop calling anything you don't like "bait," stop responding emotionally, and listen. It's a lot simpler than it sounds, and it sounds pretty simple.

There's also the option of saying nothing. Offering an ineffective "solution" is, imo, worse than just saying nothing at all.

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Because [this thread is] filled with bad nasty rude self-centered people, myself included.

People are gonna come in here, look at the latest comments, see [...] me acting like [an] idiot, and they're not gonna take it all that seriously.

[Healers] probably shoulda stayed silent, huh.

That's alright, there's about as much point in you listening to reason as there is to this whole "strike" you've organized. Sorry you continue to make bad decisions and have placed that on other people.

So you admit that this healer strike is pointless, then?

Your ideas are terrible, come up with better ones that don't involve bringing down other roles just so you can be happy.

Sounds like a whole lot of not my problem.

So they can bend the knee to healer ego instead, right?

Ah, but we're not in ARR or Heavensward now, are we?

Come on. We can do better than this sort of logic.

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I dunno, that's not on me to figure out. I don't have a problem with the current state of things.

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So, speaking from purely a warrior standpoint, I don't think the solution to making healers more interesting/more impactful is to remove a lot of sustain from other jobs, but specifically, of course, warrior. On the topic of job identity, warrior actually has one. As has been said before, it's "too angry to die." If you take away the "to die" part, you're just left with "angry," which is... certainly not nearly as appealing. Making the other tanks more like warrior in terms of sustain was probably questionable, although I do agree with the buff they gave living dead, because an invuln where you pop it and die anyway is dumb.

That's all to say, the correct solution to making anything more interesting is never going to be to make other things less interesting.

Yeah paladin and warrior have absolutely 0 issue staying alive in mob pulls, which mean they have 0 issue staying alive in bosses. Gunbreaker's a little harder to self heal through mob pulls, but with a bit of luck and good enough dps, it's doable. When it comes to staying alive in bosses, again, gunbreaker's a little harder to do so... but only a little. I remember playing gunbreaker in the grand cosmos, final boss. The healer and both dps die and the boss still has a good chunk of health left, probably about 40 or 50%. It was difficult, it was tedious, but I brought the boss all the way down and kept myself decently healthy the entire time. So dark knight's definitely the least survivable tank but I'm sure with the right people it, too, could replicate what the other 3 can do.

Yeah I don't really view it as "lol I'm gonna assert dominance over everyone here," I view it more as "if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself." Warrior, in its current form, is perfect for this. I'm sure confirmation bias plays a big role in my line of thinking, but it seems like every time I try to not play tank in something, I should've gone tank. Can't dps because then the tank is gonna do single pulls and the healer's just gonna stand there doing literally nothing. Can't heal because then the tank is gonna do single pulls and the reaper's not gonna apply their death's design debuff and the bard's not gonna use songs or dots. So, tank it is.

I can play warrior, I can pull to the wall, I don't have to care about my healer or dps because I can solo the entire dungeon. Sure, it's gonna take awhile, but at least I know I can do it. So... sticking with what others have said, my bad experiences in the past have shaped my way of thinking here, "if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself."

Warriors, in dungeons, are awesome. They can do the entire thing no problem.

Yeah, some might call them warriors, or paladins, or gunbreakers. I just call them better jobs.

Healers are mad that warriors are good in dungeons and can't really think outside of that.

As well it should be. What, you want tanks to be as squishy as dps? Raidwide damage is for the rest of the party, not the tanks. That's what tankbusters and autoattacks are for. Come on, you can do better than this.

I'm happy to continue to write you off. My job is fine, my job can do your job. It's not my problem. Thanks for continuing to make your own movement look bad.

Nah I'm good, it's not my problem. My job's completely fine. Maybe you should consider playing a better job if you're not happy.

There's no need to organize a WAR strike, my job's just fine. You all are the ones trying to bring everyone else down.

It's the ones that are directing their frustrations towards tanks that don't deserve any respect. Your jobs feel bad to play already, why do you want everyone else to experience the same thing? Spite? That's no way to go about it.

So really, as long as the sentiment is "we need to nerf other jobs to feel better about ourselves," then for all I care you can stay shouting into the void for another 5 years. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy my job that ensures my roulettes are going to get cleared one way or another.

Yeah, pretty much. Not my fault you make poor decisions in what job you play. You all can have more dps buttons, that's completely fine, but don't touch the other roles. This isn't a hard concept to grasp. You can have your cake and eat it too, you don't need to steal someone else's cake.

Why would I need to? The subject isn't on the quality of who I am as a person, the subject is on why healers are so bad. And a lot of people here are misdirecting their anger, pointing it almost entirely towards tanks. Why not inward? Why does one role have to be brought down so another can have a purpose? The answer's easy, it doesn't actually have to happen like that. So the people here getting mad at the existence of tanks, well... I just don't respect them. No reason to.

I'm not in favor of this mentality coming up that tanks are evil and need to be gutted. I'm more than happy to support healers being made more interesting without having to gut anybody else.

Yeah I mean. If your ideas for how to fix healers involve bringing down the other two roles (but tanks specifically, lets be real here) then y'all can stay mad. Be irrelevant. Be boring. Come up with better ideas that don't involve bringing everyone else down with you.

[In reference to people being forced to watch Tanks spent 15 minutes soloing bosses] You should've played better, then. You've got two healers, why did both of them die? And if it's as simple as not standing in orange circles, why did you die in the first place?

Because when I queue into something and get a healer that has exactly 0 clue what they're doing despite having all level 90 healers, I know I'm going to be able to get through it, even if I have to drag them kicking and screaming.

Warrior isn't a problem though. Healers have the problem. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," y'know?

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My dudes. Dungeons aren't good content. If you're basing your entire experience off of dungeon runs, your opinion is completely invalid.

Casual content's boring, I'd rather get in and get out as fast as possible. Healers who can't heal to save their lives (despite somehow healers being incredibly easy and boring?) slow that down. I play warrior more out of necessity than anything.

I don't think, in normal content at least, that a healer death should guarantee a wipe. I don't think, in normal content at least, that a tank death should guarantee a wipe.

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yo T R U E. Actually, what they need to do is give hallowed ground to everyone, and instead of having a cooldown, they should make it a stance that you toggle. Bam, now nobody's better than anyone else. Never mind I take it back, game dev is easy.

I've already said in a previous post that if we're gonna go this route, then every job should get hallowed ground, and instead of being a cooldown it should be a stance that you toggle. There, now nobody's better than others. Easy.

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Oh, and just so we're clear, I'm aware there are people in here who have cleared higher end content. I'm much more receptive to hearing what they have to say considering they've actually, y'know, played the class in more difficult content, as opposed to the casual who forgets they have a dot.

I suspect a lot of the healers striking are already donuts to begin with. You yourself, the creator of this thread, have admitted to not doing much higher-end content. Frankly, your opinion is completely irrelevant because of that.

Go do it for yourself. If you're a skilled healer, you'll be able to do it just fine. Because you are a skilled healer, yes?

Yeah, pretty much. A lot of healers I meet in roulettes are terrible anyway.

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If you've been upset for so long, either unsub or play a different job. Don't subject yourself to something you don't enjoy, I think that's a pretty obvious statement. Again, it's really not my problem if you're making poor decisions.

Unsub if you're not having fun. Be responsible for once in your lives. Y'all are actually beyond ridiculous at this point.

Also, for those of you saying you've been unhappy "for half a decade," why are you still giving Square your money? If you want something done, if you really want to be heard, unsub and let Square find out the hard way. Because right now you're telling them "I've been unhappy for so long but I'm still going to give you my money" and that's... I mean what are they supposed to take from that? At this point, if you've really been unhappy with the way healer has been for 5 years, that's entirely on you for continuing to subject yourself to it. Don't blame others for your poor decisions.

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And don't you forget it. Hey I tried. I tried coming in here, being polite, and giving my opinion that getting rid of warrior sustain was not the solution. You all didn't like that and attacked me for it. So, if you all are gonna treat me disrespectfully, then why should I give you my respect?

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I'm not really with the healer strike, simply because I don't play healer (outside of warrior lol) but I'm certainly not against it, either. It's good to see people actually trying to do something and actually trying to enact change. I highly doubt it'll actually go anywhere, but I respect it nonetheless.

I mean the bottom line is... nothing's ever going to get done just by thinking about it hard enough. At least people are speaking up and voicing their discontentment.

Well I was in support but if the stance we're taking now is "we need to make others less interesting so I can feel more interesting," then I'm not interested in supporting.

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Maybe we could have a productive discussion if people stopped thinking so emotionally and stopped trying to hit "the other side" with a bunch of "gotchas." This thread's at 300 pages now, 95% of which are just complete crap. Hold yourselves to a higher standard.

As a bonus, you seem to hypocritically not follow a lot of your own advice, nor seem to be happy when others behave like you have here, when it comes to your own posts in other topics that are actually important to you, personally:

Your argument sounds like "I don't have an actual, logical rebuttal to this."

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For the love of everything holy, being courteous to others is not a hard concept to grasp. It's really not. I have no idea what you were trying to say with this post and I'm embarrassed on your behalf.

Hey, so, since you decided to be intellectually dishonest, I'm gonna do the same. You know, in a way, we do pay them. We pay our sub, which goes back to SQenix, which eventually makes its way into their pockets. No players, no revenue, no GMs. Come on, you're better than this.

Oh, see, the problem is that you didn't understand the point of my post. [...] However, if you want to fact check me, please feel free to do your own research, I'm sure you'll be surprised to find out I'm completely right.

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It would be incredibly easy for someone to read my problem and say "oh that's not a big deal to me, this person's just exaggerating" and move on, completely ignoring my bigger point...

Can you read my responses first before posting another response? Because I don't feel like you did.

Tell me you didn't read the post without telling me you didn't read the post.

What are you even talking about? No, really, what are you even talking about? How is any of what you said relevant to this discussion?

This is not a hard concept to grasp.

I'm gonna need you to be more clear, this comment is largely unhelpful and unproductive.

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Let me give you a bit of advice as well, since we're doing psychological evaluations of each other now.

Nothing's ever going to get done just by thinking about it hard enough. If you want something done, or changed, you have to push for it. Ignorance is not always bliss. I imagine your life is a very happy one.

Let me be crystal clear. If I'm paying monthly to play a game, there needs to be good service. [...] I'm saying "the community needs better and needs to be better." You're sitting over there eating crap and trying to pass it off as german chocolate. If that's what you want to do, by all means that's your right as a human being. But don't come in here and tell me to try it too, because I'm gonna call it what it is. Complete and utter crap. I'm done engaging with you.

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That's the thing, isn't it? You don't get to dictate the value of my time.

Once you actually get into whatever you're queueing into, it's in the hands of your other party members, but at that point the damage has been done. You've *already* queued, you've *already* wasted their time, the damage has *already* been done. [...] I genuinely believe there should be more checks in place to ensure this sort of situation doesn't happen in the first place.

This point, I feel, feeds into both of our points. Mine of disrespect, and yours of laziness is a bigger issue.

However, this all said, I fail to see how making the ilvl requirement stricter would be a detriment. There are fundamental problems with some players. This solution would not be a cure for that, but it certainly would help in forcing players to be more responsible [...]

I think it's incredibly disrespectful to be queueing into anything with less than appropriate gear. What sort of message does it send to everyone else you're playing with if you're queueing into things practically missing gear? To me, it shows you're either disrespectful of everyone else there and don't care about their time, or it shows that you're just incompetent and weren't aware, one of which I'd argue is much better than the other. I'm not asking for perfection, I'm not even asking for "good." I'm asking for the bare minimum.

It doesn't really matter whether it's disrespect or lack of knowledge. One is much easier to remedy than the other. I've queued into the dusk vigil with a scholar wearing the book that drops from the stone vigil. They couldn't keep me alive as a tank, not for lack of me using mits, but because the book they were using just couldn't keep up.

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There's such a disdain from the general casual side towards raiders that's just... weird. And it goes both ways, for sure.

But it gets bad, imo, when you have players in duties asking for help with their job. "How do I do this, how do I do that," only to get met with "oh you don't have to worry about that." So there's someone clearly wanting to learn, being told that it doesn't matter unless they're looking into higher end content. You've got people making the statement "this part is bad for X job because Y" only to get met with "so? this isn't savage."

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There's a lot of entitlement that comes with the general XIV community.

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I don't grief people. That'd be a waste of my own time as well and I don't really feel the need to get my kicks from making other people miserable.

You all know what spam is, you don't need me to dictate it to you. It's too much of the same thing. [...] It's all fundamentally the same thing; spam is spam.

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I don't suppose you've ever heard of the sunk-cost fallacy?

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"You don't pay my sub" is exhibit A. You ask a healer to actually do damage, "you don't pay my sub." [...] That aside, you can't really be all that confrontational. That's why everyone's so passive aggressive.

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Why is your answer to everything "wait until dawntrail" ? Why can you not be a normal human being and understand that "oh just blacklist them lol" is not this magical cure-all? Blacklisting someone in dawntrail will make it so you don't have to see them, and hey, that's great... But if the person is stalking them, they're still going to be stalking them. Stop being blind in every single thread.

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And yet you see people going on and on and on about how inclusive, accepting the XIV community is. I dunno what they're smoking but I want some of it, because I certainly don't see what they're seeing.

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Of course anything that goes against the idea of "my game is perfect" is going to upset people. It's crazy. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I genuinely believe the XIV community is the most toxic community I've ever been a part of.

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Why are you like this? How are you content sitting there, covering your ears and going "lalalalalalala" ?

The blacklist is not infinite. I am not the only one reporting them because I know for a fact there are other people reporting them. The blacklist is not infinite. They need to take action even if that action is telling us they're not taking action. The blacklist is not infinite. The GM team, bottom line, needs to be better. The blacklist is not infinite. Have I mentioned the blacklist is not infinite?

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You're not arguing in good faith and you've moved the goalposts, just as I said you would.

Please stop being intellectually dishonest.

My answer's still the same to you in particular: nothing I say will ever be good enough for you because I don't get the impression you're arguing in good faith.

[GoodPerson]

I'm Gagged.