#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[WeakestZenosEnjoyer]

Does this mean if 4 healers manage to beat the mediatour dungeon you would be fine with all DPS being taken off healers? It encroaches on other roles right?

So here's the thing, when you have a shortage of damage the run goes really slowly, it'll feel very sluggish, without a DPS role the run will go slower,

when there's a shortage of healing you die, without a healer role but people still not dying the run goes faster,

that's why 1Tank/3Healer doesn't mean anything but a 1Tank/3DPS clear does actually

[Eorzean_username]

The Expac isn't even out yet. We don't know what mechanics will be introduced or how fights will evolve over the course of the expansion. I should be thanking everyone here however for the strike, when I decide to level up Scholar on my alt the queue times are going to be so quick.

All of these points have been addressed or declared ad-nauseum already over the past 300 pages. Pick any random page number and scroll for a few posts, you'll probably find someone saying everything that you just did, and being patiently-refuted.

Even trained AI would not be this consistent, repetitive, predictable, uncreative, or banal.

Ultimately healers don't have a very engaging rotation because they're supposed to heal. They made the choice to balance the game around harder content, making it so that casual content, healing isn't required nearly as often.

Please see the 100+ different replies in this Thread explaining, with admirable patience, why appeals to "harder content" do not resolve many of the underlying problems being discussed here.

But I'm just saying, you all really are coming off like you have some kind of god complex about playing healer. Like if you don't hold the constant and ultimate authority on survival and death, you aren't satisfied.

But at the end of the day, the game isn't ruined by healers not being able to stroke a god complex, and you're all being incredibly hyperbolic.

You have to act like healers not being the gods of the party all the time is some kind of threatening issue?

You are inventing this supposed "god complex" in your head. Expecting people to waste time refuting arguments that exist in your imagination is not a productive use of other people's time.

If you can provide concrete quotes that support your outlandish claims, please do so.

But, even setting that aside, what do you expect the Role of a Job that explicitly, "prevents players from dying by refilling or protecting HP Bars", to be? If Healing isn't the "authority on survival and death", then what the hell is the Role even there for?

As it is, the most common feedback I've ever heard in /novice is the reason they don't want to heal is that they don't want to be responsible for the party wiping because they screwed up.

Good, then they shouldn't Heal, they're obviously not emotionally-qualified for it. That's fine — the DPS Role has eternally existed for exactly that "I just want to blend into the background" desire.

The developer solution to, "I have anxiety about playing a Role", should not be, "Oh, okay, that's fine, we'll just remove the Role, but allow you to still cosplay as that Role in the User Interface".

And before anyone begins any hand-wringing about "the Healer population" — I was playing in ARR, HW, and SB. The "Healer population" was fine. Somehow, people either overcame their "anxiety", or were actually still willing to do it in spite of their nervousness.

Attempting to toddler-proof the Role has not seemed to have any meaningful impact on either a) its population nor b) people's "anxieties" about the "pressure" of playing it.

Put simply, they seem to want healing to be at least approachable for new players.

This is disingenuous. Healing was always "approachable" for new players. I had no trouble comprehending how to heal in FFXIV, even when I was brand-new and still manually-clicking Rampart before pulling Dungeon bosses.

"Press Cure 1 to heal one Target, press Medica 1 to heal entire Party, press Esuna to remove Debuffs, press Cleric Stance when it seems like no one needs Healing, and then use Stone and Aero to hurt Enemies" was not even remotely overwhelming at all.

That's probably why mits are getting such a huge buff in the new expansion. Sentinel and their equivalents being increased to 40% and given extra effects leads me to believe they expect us to have a need for that level of mitigation...

You are falling for smoke and mirrors.

The exact same thing could have been achieved by leaving the mitigations identical to EW values and effects, and simply increasing the damage of the content itself.

The only reason that the designers increased mitigations is because they needed to pretend that you were gaining power by leveling-up another 10 Levels, and they needed filler Traits because they didn't have time nor motivation to design and animate any more new Actions or effects.

Well no, you're trying to make it into some kind of political stand thing, which is hilarious. Do you not have any real-world issues that trouble you enough to demand your attention? [...] I'm begging anyone who is part of this "movement" to touch grass.

Ah, there we go, "Your concerns don't matter, because someone else has other concerns somewhere else," and "Obviously, if you care about a hobby, that means you are a shut-in who doesn't go outside".

You — "KellyEwer" — pay for and play FFXIV. That is evident, because you are here on these subscription-gated Forums posting about it, and making appeals to authority based on your own experiences within the game.

Therefore, every minute that you spend logged-in pretending to be a CyberPunk-outfitted Rabbit-Human hybrid-creature is 1 more minute of your life that you will never get back, and could have been spent on the very activism that you seem so upset that we're not engaging in here. For example, rather than spamming cute Moogle dungeons in a video game or decorating an imaginary house, you could be raising broader awareness of the situations in Darfur, northern Nigeria, or Haiti. But instead, you choose to spend your time playing a video game, and then have the Narnian audacity to criticise other people's dissatisfaction with their own Role in that very same video game.

Stop pretending you're a superhero. None of us are.

And stop pretending that we're decadent and insulated just because we enjoy a specific hobby in our free time. I can't speak for everyone, but I spend plenty of my daily time doing work, chores, and engaging in discussions on far more serious topics than FFXIV. The fact that I also — like most human beings, even most activists — also have hobbies, and a personal interest in improving the quality of my experience in a particular hobby that I enjoy, should not be the subject of your condescending and hypocritical ridicule.

[Jeycht]

Looks like nobody try to get what I'm saying and simply want to focus on "healer do 111" and nothing else even when I'm talking about other problems that are the actual problem. Last post from me here. To bad, I want change too but at best I gonna have a proc or 2 and a meaningless rotation.

To answer you Good Person: as drg there is no nuance. It's as I said, the Geirskogul is only a consequence of clicking on the jump (the fluff button) that you gonna click anyway (atleast if want to do your job as dps) and magically have a new ogcd to click that wont change anything in the actual rotation. As dps you manage your dps, nothing else. As healer you manage your ogcd to heal and try your best to move in the right direction while dpsing.
If I want an easy job in prog I play dps, not healer. Weird right, yet there is nothing to do as healer?

After week1 you can do whatever you want as dps as long you are clicking buttons decently, you don't have to care about managing anything, the gear diff is there. Really. I can slack and still clear the content. Not different from healer.

I guess healers in my team, when I'm not healer. Gonna be happy to know they only have to throw an ogcd here and there after raid wide damage. I wonder why they keep talking about what they have to do during every part of fights.

[Turtledeluxe]

It encroaches on other roles right?

No it doesn't because all jobs have dps.

Truly potent sustain that isn't an afterthought is locked to a handful of jobs.

Also have these bard runs and healer runs you guys are talking about been done? Because the tank runs people are mentioning are done every single day, Solo or with party members. It doesn't matter. In terms of most game content, you are a tank accessory whether you like that or not. Depending on the tank and whether the player has any given vague idea of what to do, they can survive without you.

I don't know why you have such Pikachu face about it.

It doesn't take a no lifer, streamer or otherwise expert either.

[Striker44]

Can you justify https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...=hps&class=Any? This is HPS from all jobs in a median dungeon run.

So, the healers are doing the most healing, tanks are doing second-most, and DPS are doing the least?

Genuine question - I have no idea how FFlogs works. Does it gather data from every single person playing the game, just those who have FFlogs installed, anyone in a party with someone who has FFlogs installed?

[Reinha]

As I've said a few times now, I believe the correct fix for this is to honestly nerf healing across the board. Not just on Tank and DPS jobs, either, but Healers as well. So instead of casting one heal and back to your DPS rotation, now you have to cast multiple heals before you return to the lackluster DPS rotation.

I wouldn't expect more DPS buttons with the current button bloat - remember this has to be playable on a controller.

Finally someone who understands the core problem. Healing is too simplified, too powerful and done with a bloated kit of overlapping abilities. Everything can be resolved in an instant. Tank healing, dps healing and healer healing all have to be nerfed if incoming damage will not be increased across the board in all content. Also, mitigation is the healer's and the tank's job, there is no reason why the dps should be rotating mitigations on almost all major boss attacks in savage and taking on the task of ensuring the group's survival.

The dps rotation doesn't have to be lackluster either. There would be room to add more dps buttons if this ridiculous amount of ogcd heals was pruned. Every healer could afford to lose/merge 3 abilities in favor of more diverse dps buttons.

Ironically pruning the healing kit would not make us closer to a dps. It would allow us to spend more time healing, like we used to once upon a time with less bloated kits. Those images of the dps spell being cast more and more in raids as the years went by were very illuminating. I could feel something about healing had changed, simplified it, and it was not just me getting better at it.

[GoodPerson]

Looks like nobody try to get what I'm saying and simply want to focus on "healer do 111" and nothing else even when I'm talking about other problems that are the actual problem. Last post from me here. To bad, I want change too but at best I gonna have a proc or 2 and a meaningless rotation.

To answer you Good Person: as drg there is no nuance. It's as I said, the Geirskogul is only a consequence of clicking on the jump (the fluff button) that you gonna click anyway (atleast if want to do your job as dps) and magically have a new ogcd to click that wont change anything in the actual rotation. As dps you manage your dps, nothing else. As healer you manage your ogcd to heal and try your best to move in the right direction while dpsing.
If I want an easy job in prog I play dps, not healer. Weird right, yet there is nothing to do as healer?

After week1 you can do whatever you want as dps as long you are clicking buttons decently, you don't have to care about managing anything, the gear diff is there. Really. I can slack and still clear the content. Not different from healer.

I guess healers in my team, when I'm not healer. Gonna be happy to know they only have to throw an ogcd here and there after raid wide damage. I wonder why they keep talking about what they have to do during every part of fights.

I'm mostly trying to stress, as other people in the thread have said,:
-the downtime as healers is boring.
-This lack of engagement increases as optimization occurs, including the already lower floor for optimization due to dungeons being designed the way inwhich they are.
-Therefore (one of many answers) is that people want more engaging rotations or buttons.

Mind you this is a complicated subject/issue with multiple paths to address it, we're only atm speaking on making dpsing on healers more interesting. Ultimately this thread is to bring attention to the number of people who would like to see vaguely something change for the better, as it's the players that present something they dislike, and the developers to either ignore or present a solution.

Anyway to answer you more directly, I for one find the "no nuance" fun, between most of the Melee dps classes. I find dps more engaging and taxing because I generally have a full kit of buttons and ogcds to manage that I want to keep on 1/2 minute rotation for maximum benefit, which immediately opens up huge pool of potential for optimization. I could just say "whatever, week 1s done im just going to play on cruise control" but atleast you're presented with the choice of such. You even have the choice of playing something easier and less engaging in the way of, SMN , Brd, etc. Healers don't have that. Most they have is swapping and playing AST.

But I'm happy to agree to disagree, it seems you and I derive entirely different things from playing Dps and thats fine. I'll definitely looking forward to figuring out and playing Picto/Vpr come DT for sure <3

[Supersnow845]

So, the healers are doing the most healing, tanks are doing second-most, and DPS are doing the least?

Genuine question - I have no idea how FFlogs works. Does it gather data from every single person playing the game, just those who have FFlogs installed, anyone in a party with someone who has FFlogs installed?

Think about it this way, almost all the healers heal exclusively these days with AOE heals (the shield healers especially) so every heal they use is healing everyone even though they only mean to heal the tank (this is why WHM is a little lower than the other 3 because it often uses solace over rapture). Meanwhile the tanks healing is mostly focused on themselves with the exception of like shake it off

So since say SCH is at 80 and WAR is at 60 but SCH is AOE healing whole WAR is single target healing this indicates WAR is healing itself over 3 times as much as the healer is healing them. Or in other words in terms of single target healing on themself the tank is stronger than the healer on that front. That is the problem with what those logs are saying

As for your general question those are posted logs so if one person has ACT running and posts it it will show all 4 players performance but people do rarely post dungeon logs

[HighlanderClone]

Think about it this way, almost all the healers heal exclusively these days with AOE heals (the shield healers especially) so every heal they use is healing everyone even though they only mean to heal the tank (this is why WHM is a little lower than the other 3 because it often uses solace over rapture). Meanwhile the tanks healing is mostly focused on themselves with the exception of like shake it off

So since say SCH is at 80 and WAR is at 60 but SCH is AOE healing whole WAR is single target healing this indicates WAR is healing itself over 3 times as much as the healer is healing them. Or in other words in terms of single target healing on themself the tank is stronger than the healer on that front. That is the problem with what those logs are saying

As for your general question those are posted logs so if one person has ACT running and posts it it will show all 4 players performance but people do rarely post dungeon logs

sry, only a vast, vast infinitesimally small minority uses ACT so any data from that tiny, vocal minority should be discarded.

[Bole]

So, the healers are doing the most healing, tanks are doing second-most, and DPS are doing the least?

Genuine question - I have no idea how FFlogs works. Does it gather data from every single person playing the game, just those who have FFlogs installed, anyone in a party with someone who has FFlogs installed?

What I was trying to show is just how close WAR is to WHM and the other healers, and how much PLD is going away from the typical HPS of the other tanks (GNB and DRK).

If any one person in the party is using these tools, they gather data for the entire party, so it does include some people who won't bother with these tools otherwise (but it doesn't include everyone playing the game).