I'm gonna say something unpopular: I don't like to rush.

[Canadane]

If the tanks pulling ahead, only the tank needs to be in healing range.
Don’t stick by the DPS, stick by the tank.

[Vahlnir]

If the tanks pulling ahead, only the tank needs to be in healing range.
Don’t stick by the DPS, stick by the tank.

Yep.

Tanking 101- Stick with your healer.

Healer 101- Stick with your tank.

[AngelCheese77]

I love that everyone seems to know what everyone else in the group wants.

There is no "3 people want it this way and 1 doesn't!" regardless of which way the wind is blowing. Just take the 3 seconds as the instance is loading in to actually talk to each other.
It's all assumptions regardless of what you think the meta is, what your own personal desires are, what you had for breakfast this morning, etc.

Bolded for emphasis (mine). The thing is, and many have stated here I am sure, that there apparently is now a "Community Expectation" to just pull wall-to-wall. Period. No more communicating, or saying you want to do this or that. And lordy if you go against such "Community Expectations" you are a baaad person and should be kicked, leave, do PFs or Trusts.

The thing is, this "Community Expectations" thing was created by players themselves. True, one could argue that SE essentially was the catalyst when they moved from branching dungeons to linear ones, as well as easy trash mobs between arbitrary barricades/walls. But they weren't the ones who said you must play this way. The player base decided that by finding the most optimal way to do a dungeon (which is really human nature) and it spread around.

For those who suggest making a PF for it. Yeah right. Have you ever tried doing that? So then there are a few other options.

1. Trusts/Squadrons. Now IIRC, Squadrons are only unlocked after a certain level and GC rank. So it isn't around for really new people. Also, they don't have all the dungeons there, nor do they go past level 60 dungeons. Same with Trusts. Only happen in ShB and after level 70 IIRC. So that idea only works in specific situations.

2. Communicate. No matter your job you are playing. I understand those on PS4 might not have keyboards, but you can make macros! That's what I do to say hello and goodbye. Making one that you are new or that you take your time is possible.

3. Deal and Move on. If those in the DF don't agree with your pace or are doing things you don't like, don't say anything and leave. Some might disagree with this, but it saves you from possibly getting reported and suspended (cause we all know how poo this new ToS is). Do other stuff for 30 minutes. It isn't the end of the world.

I've started to take my own advice on this, as I used to get upset when I want to check out the lore in a new dungeon or see what was in that side room. Overall this is a game where you have fun. Don't get yourself upset over something so minuscule as a dungeon.

[Eli85]

Doing big pulls is not showing basic competency. It is showing impatience.
Players who insist on big pulls should do the tanking themselves - that way they get to decide the size of pulls.

No, it's basic competency. Most tanks do employ basic competency. Those who do not make it miserable for the rest of the group. Why should the tank be more important than the rest of the group?

It's not about competency. I's about the comfort of the group. If you don't want to talk to people to ensure yours and their comfort and prefer stress, well, I'm sorry for you.

It is nothing to do with comfort. The tanks that do single pulls are playing the game very, very badly. You do not want to justify bad play, ever.

[Vahlnir]

No, it's basic competency. Most tanks do employ basic competency. Those who do not make it miserable for the rest of the group. Why should the tank be more important than the rest of the group?



It is nothing to do with comfort. The tanks that do single pulls are playing the game very, very badly. You do not want to justify bad play, ever.

The one thing you are leaving out is circumstance and points of view. Is the healer capable? Are the dps able to put out reasonable numbers? A lot of the time it takes an outside perspective to see such things. I'm all for large pulls, I sort of have to be, not that I have an issue with them anyway. However, a good tank also needs to learn how to read a room. Big pulls mean nothing if your healer and dps is subpar for pulls like that. And like I said, that is a bit easier to see from the outside looking in. Your default argument is "small pulls bad, big pulls good, git gud scrubs or git out". That's nice, how about you take various factors into account? It's not as black and white as you think.

[Eli85]

The one thing you are leaving out is circumstance and points of view. Is the healer capable? Are the dps able to put out reasonable numbers? A lot of the time it takes an outside perspective to see such things. I'm all for large pulls, I sort of have to be, not that I have an issue with them anyway. However, a good tank also needs to learn how to read a room. Big pulls mean nothing if your healer and dps is subpar for pulls like that. And like I said, that is a bit easier to see from the outside looking in. Your default argument is "small pulls bad, big pulls good, git gud scrubs or git out". That's nice, how about you take various factors into account? It's not as black and white as you think.

In this game, you don't need any high skill ceiling DPS and healers to pull it off. You just need players who are not complete turds. Middling healers and DPS will not cause problems with large pulls. I do most of my Expert Roulette as my WHM, and even with big pulls, unless I fall asleep on the couch or lag out, the tank never dies. I've even been in groups with sub-par DPS, and nothing ever comes close to a wipe.

This game is not hard. It's brain dead easy on everything not named Savage. Big pulls should never be a stressful experience for any tank, unless they literally have no clue what their buttons do.

[linayar]

Playing badly? I don't think so either. Playing optimally? Probably not, no. A lot of people prefer optimal play, myself included. Pulling everything you can and AoEing them all down is no doubt the best way. When I'm not tanking (which is actually pretty rare nowadays) and I'm playing as a dps...small pulls like that annoy me, but I also accept that not everyone is able to or is willing to pull wall to wall for whatever reasons they have. As much as it may annoy me, sometimes that is simply how it's going to play out.

I can agree with that. What I don't agree is labeling people who want to single pull as garbage.

[SenorPatty]

In this game, you don't need any high skill ceiling DPS and healers to pull it off. You just need players who are not complete turds. Middling healers and DPS will not cause problems with large pulls. I do most of my Expert Roulette as my WHM, and even with big pulls, unless I fall asleep on the couch or lag out, the tank never dies. I've even been in groups with sub-par DPS, and nothing ever comes close to a wipe.

This game is not hard. It's brain dead easy on everything not named Savage. Big pulls should never be a stressful experience for any tank, unless they literally have no clue what their buttons do.

But then, that's just something you put up with--the subpar dps and healing--because your threshold is not wiping. Some people, like me, would rather just re-adjust to single pulls because why go the extra mile of mass pulling if no else in the party won't and/or can't put the effort in? That wouldn't make me garbage, I'm just reading room and adjusting accordingly.

[Vahlnir]

But then, that's just something you put up with--the subpar dps and healing--because your threshold is not wiping. Some people, like me, would rather just re-adjust to single pulls because why go the extra mile of mass pulling if no else in the party won't and/or can't put the effort in? That wouldn't make me garbage, I'm just reading room and adjusting accordingly.

There we go, someone else gets it.

[Selova]

snip.

The issue I take with this mindset is that this is from the PoV of only yourself and what you specifically want to do instead of thinking of the other people in your group. The moment you step into group content it stops being about you and about the other people you are grouped with.