I'm gonna say something unpopular: I don't like to rush.

[Kalker]

Sorry, that's a false equivalence. You're expected to do your role according to the size of the mobs attacking your party. There is nothing about your role that dictates you need to be facing a certain number of enemies at the same time.

Like I said if you're gonna tank as well as a DPS you might as well queue as one. You're not given mitigation tools, extra defense and a bigger HP pool so you can do jack with them, the game is clearly telling you to pull more than what a DPS can handle.

I don't see how you can look at what you quoted and then type of what you posted.

Simple, me being able to heal a DPS doesn't make a single pulling tank any less lazier. I obviously don't think it's easier to tank with a DPS and don't see how that should change my views on "You pull you tank" being a garbage mentality. Thinking that somehow I should be OK with it because "just heal them lol it's the same" is a false equivalency.

[Vahlnir]

I'm glad we have yet another one of these threads. The old one was getting so stale.

Never change XIV community. Never change.

And the war still wageth on!

The storm still rageth on!

The bold blindly march on!

Their lives lost in a song!

Pretty sure Ravana was breaking the 4th wall and singing about the community itself.

[Bopsheezi]

And the war still wageth on!

The storm still rageth on!

The bold blindly march on!

Their lives lost in a song!

Pretty sure Ravana was breaking the 4th wall and singing about the community itself.

You're totally right. That has to be it!

[Daibunnie]

Wonder what would happen if the instance timer for dungeons were 30 minutes instead of 90.

[RajNish]

The problem is not the size of the pulls. The problem is the inability to cooperate and negotiate. All those healers and DPS can simply write: "Please pull more." I don't see a big problem in slowing down if my tank cannot take more. And I don't see a problem in asking to pull more if they can handle it. Just don't have to force people.

[Bopsheezi]

Wonder what would happen if the instance timer for dungeons were 30 minutes instead of 90.

As long as the timer stops after the boss so I can go back to spawn and explore, by all means.

[LittleImp]

People have so much of their identity invested into this game that they're essentially incapable of admitting it's possible to just be bad at it.

Instead, we parade out justifications for how inefficient, low quality game-play is just an alternative playstyle and that it somehow doesn't impact their value as a player in a multiplayer game.

The wonderful thing about being bad or new is that it's totally temporary! Due to this games incredibly low skill floor, you can make massive improvements to your gameplay with very minimal effort. This game even offers an incredible abundance of people that are willing to help you improve.

Improvements are easy to make. Resources and people are available to help you make them. If, in the face of that, you still refuse to try to do better in the context of a cooperative activity..... What exactly does that say about someone?

[Eli85]

The problem is not the size of the pulls. The problem is the inability to cooperate and negotiate. All those healers and DPS can simply write: "Please pull more." I don't see a big problem in slowing down if my tank cannot take more. And I don't see a problem in asking to pull more if they can handle it. Just don't have to force people.

The problem with this logic is, one shouldn't have to negotiate for basic competency. Tank pulling slowly is the same thing as a BLM playing as the infamous ice mage. It should not be an unreasonable expectation that the BLM should at least know their rotation, instead of stubbornly only using 2-3 of their weakest spells and nothing else. Same thing goes for pulling. Incoming damage in a dungeon is an absolute joke, and if the tank does not pull big, we should not have to negotiate for a non-miserable experience.

[linayar]

Glad you're ok with people playing like utter s**t.
And people wonder why we have so many bad players in expert roulette.
Dps that ST mobs, tanks that pull only one pack and don't know how to use their defensive cooldowns and healers that stand there and heal a 90% full HP tank and not dps.
But we can blame the hall of novice guys!

So, I'm only talking about pulling single packs and you're adding in other things like not knowing how to use defensive cooldowns. Quite a strawman there.

obviously don't think it's easier to tank with a DPS

Good, then let the tank pull.

[ForteNightshade]

In that same vein... you're not special to pull as a dps and expect to not die because you pull something the tank didn't. It goes both ways.

Actually, no. A tank refusing to pull mobs off someone is them refusing to do their job and endangering the run. Those mobs will eventually target someone else if you let them purposely ignore them, and if it happens to be the healer (or the healer is who you let die). You've now made things worse out of pettiness. Someone pulling ahead of you isn't doing it to show you up but to speed things along. Now you may dislike that, and can certainly voiced such afterwards. But there's no way around you're just being petty.

Not every dungeon is "boring"... Maybe to you? Maybe not to them. Rush is NOT necessary OR required.

For those of us running them for the 100th time. They are boring. We're there simply to collect rewards and little else. Going slow is equally unnecessary. What it always boils down to is majority rules. Your preference may be to take things slow and enjoy the aesthetics of Grand Cosmos. Mine is pulling everything in sight and mow everything down. Why does your preference trump mine?

The same can be said to people who want fast runs. Use party finder, use trusts, don't force other people to your standard of enjoyment. Your time is no more valuable than anyone else in duty roulettes.

Hence why majority rules. That being said, Trusts are specifically designed for story purposes. They don't AoE, thus they aren't efficient for fast runs. This makes them perfect for someone like yourself who wants to take their time and worry about people rushing on ahead. Frankly, they're a big reason speeding through dungeons has gotten more ubiquitous. Players who dislike rushing have an alternative now. Going into a dungeon with other people means you have to deal with their preferences.

Otherwise I agree with your conclusion. You aren't guaranteed anything, however there are certain expectations. Expert Roulette is typically sped through, thus if you queue in and expect to take things slow or insist upon it. You'll likely to deal with resistance. Conversely, trying to force a speed run in Stone Vigil may have the opposite result.

I do want to touch on something you brought up in a previous post: that you miss when dungeons weren't rushed. This can be blamed on the dev team not the playerbase. Dungeons have seen virtually zero iteration since their inception. At most, little lore tidbits are sprinkled around what are otherwise the same basic corridor simulator. Unfortunately, lore does not work as an incentive because it's a one and done activity. First, it assumes the player even cares about extra lore. But even for those of us who do, we'll read it a handful of times and then it becomes irrelevant. Likewise, branching paths which lead to a secret coffer don't work when said coffer gives you worthless potions or very low ilvl gear.

People would be more keen to explore if that branching path led to different bosses or if dungeon design were randomized. Instead of one layout, say dungeons had three or five that were chosen once you queued in. That would add a lot to spice things up. The biggest problem though are mobs just aren't threatening. If the tank does a single pull, I could literally AFK and make dinner as a healer. Baldesion Arsenal proves just how different the mentality becomes when the risk isn't worth rushing towards. You have 56 players, several of whom are raiders of varying skill levels, but were not only extremely cautious. You were told as the MT on Ozma, stuck it up and never turn off your Tank Stance. Now I'm not suggesting dungeons be that aggressive but simply showing it's the design philosophy—particularly how comically weak mobs are in dungeons—as a whole that leads to the rush mentality we have.