I'm gonna say something unpopular: I don't like to rush.

[LittleImp]

People have so much of their identity invested into this game that they're essentially incapable of admitting it's possible to just be bad at it.

Instead, we parade out justifications for how inefficient, low quality game-play is just an alternative playstyle and that it somehow doesn't impact their value as a player in a multiplayer game.

The wonderful thing about being bad or new is that it's totally temporary! Due to this games incredibly low skill floor, you can make massive improvements to your gameplay with very minimal effort. This game even offers an incredible abundance of people that are willing to help you improve.

Improvements are easy to make. Resources and people are available to help you make them. If, in the face of that, you still refuse to try to do better in the context of a cooperative activity..... What exactly does that say about someone?

[Goji1639]

People have so much of their identity invested into this game that they're essentially incapable of admitting it's possible to just be bad at it.

Instead, we parade out justifications for how inefficient, low quality game-play is just an alternative playstyle and that it somehow doesn't impact their value as a player in a multiplayer game.

The wonderful thing about being bad or new is that it's totally temporary! Due to this games incredibly low skill floor, you can make massive improvements to your gameplay with very minimal effort. This game even offers an incredible abundance of people that are willing to help you improve.

Improvements are easy to make. Resources and people are available to help you make them. If, in the face of that, you still refuse to try to do better in the context of a cooperative activity..... What exactly does that say about someone?

Value as a player isn't the issue. The faster you can clear the more valuable you are; most people wouldn't deny that.

If someone decides they'd rather take a slower approach then they probably don't care that much about your value assessment. You're just not very important.

That's kind of my issue with this. I'll generally wall to wall in endgame dungeons, but when someone in a video game tells me I'm not ALLOWED to do anything else... that doesn't set well. Acting like your preference is an in-game rule that you have the authority to enforce on everybody is just bratty nonsense that turns people against you.

Most groups don't care if the tank isn't pulling wall to wall. Even when single pulling an instance rarely takes more than 20-25 minutes. The people losing their minds over this are a minority of wannabe elitists.

[LittleImp]

Value as a player isn't the issue. The faster you can clear the more valuable you are; most people wouldn't deny that.

Alright, fast clears = value to the majority of people then.

If someone decides they'd rather take a slower approach then they probably don't care that much about your value assessment. You're just not very important.

Decides implies intention. This hypothetical person is now intentionally playing the game in a way that is considered of inferior value by the majority of people, as we've just established. They're also doing so out of a hypothetical lack of care for other people. Sounds like a pleasant person.

That's kind of my issue with this. I'll generally wall to wall in endgame dungeons, but when someone in a video game tells me I'm not ALLOWED to do anything else... that doesn't set well. Acting like your preference is an in-game rule that you have the authority to enforce on everybody is just bratty nonsense that turns people against you.

If fast clears are valuable, it's not surprising that people are going to have a strong preference for them. While it may not be a hard in-game rule, if the majority of the party is unhappy with a small-pulling tank in endgame content, they can and should excercise their right to vote-kick. Fortunately, I do most of my roulettes with a kicking majority and usually tank them anyway. If obstinately bad players turn against me, I see that as an added bonus.

Most groups don't care if the tank isn't pulling wall to wall. Even when single pulling an instance rarely takes more than 20-25 minutes. The people losing their minds over this are a minority of wannabe elitists.

I've played this game in voip with hundreds of different people over the years, covering the entire gamut of skill levels and interests. While they may not say anything in game, I can tell you that the majority of people will at least groan and roll their eyes when they get a single pulling tank in endgame roulettes.

EXTREMELY casual players are capable of pulling off wall-to-wall pulls with minimal effort and a basic understanding of their job. Having a vocal preference for playing the game in an extremely accessible and efficient way doesn't make you an elitist.

[Goji1639]

Alright, fast clears = value to the majority of people then.


Decides implies intention. This hypothetical person is now intentionally playing the game in a way that is considered of inferior value by the majority of people, as we've just established. They're also doing so out of a hypothetical lack of care for other people. Sounds like a pleasant person.




If fast clears are valuable, it's not surprising that people are going to have a strong preference for them. While it may not be a hard in-game rule, if the majority of the party is unhappy with a small-pulling tank in endgame content, they can and should excercise their right to vote-kick. Fortunately, I do most of my roulettes with a kicking majority and usually tank them anyway. If obstinately bad players turn against me, I see that as an added bonus.


I've played this game in voip with hundreds of different people over the years, covering the entire gamut of skill levels and interests. While they may not say anything in game, I can tell you that the majority of people will at least groan and roll their eyes when they get a single pulling tank in endgame roulettes.

EXTREMELY casual players are capable of pulling off wall-to-wall pulls with minimal effort and a basic understanding of their job. Having a vocal preference for playing the game in an extremely accessible and efficient way doesn't make you an elitist.

I said "wannabe" elitist; I think referring to the people who try to bigshot in roulettes as elitist is a little generous.

Tanks may decide not to take the fastest approach possible for a lot of reasons. Roll your eyes all you want. Hell, even politely request bigger pulls and if they say no then take it to vote kick, if you care enough to make it an issue. The majority of people don't even care enough to type a polite request, though.

The tantrums and attitude we see on these forums, and rarely in dungeons, are from a minority of WANNABE elitists who just need content to feel elite in. Savage probably didn't work out, so they queue up for easy mode and wait for someone to play a little lazy or not know what they're doing. Then once they have some ammo it's straight to the forums to use the word bad a couple 100 times and hope for a pat on the head.