I'm gonna say something unpopular: I don't like to rush.

[RajNish]

The problem is not the size of the pulls. The problem is the inability to cooperate and negotiate. All those healers and DPS can simply write: "Please pull more." I don't see a big problem in slowing down if my tank cannot take more. And I don't see a problem in asking to pull more if they can handle it. Just don't have to force people.

[Eli85]

The problem is not the size of the pulls. The problem is the inability to cooperate and negotiate. All those healers and DPS can simply write: "Please pull more." I don't see a big problem in slowing down if my tank cannot take more. And I don't see a problem in asking to pull more if they can handle it. Just don't have to force people.

The problem with this logic is, one shouldn't have to negotiate for basic competency. Tank pulling slowly is the same thing as a BLM playing as the infamous ice mage. It should not be an unreasonable expectation that the BLM should at least know their rotation, instead of stubbornly only using 2-3 of their weakest spells and nothing else. Same thing goes for pulling. Incoming damage in a dungeon is an absolute joke, and if the tank does not pull big, we should not have to negotiate for a non-miserable experience.

[RajNish]

Tank pulling slowly is the same thing as a BLM playing as the infamous ice mage.

Following this logic, as a more experienced player, you can give advice or ask to do big pulls, instead of running ahead and forcing, making the game stressful. Do you feel the difference?

There are people on the other side of the monitor too. They may not know something or not be able to. But this is not a reason for pressure, it is a reason to start a dialogue.

[Eli85]

Following this logic, as a more experienced player, you can give advice or ask to do big pulls, instead of running ahead and forcing, making the game stressful. Do you feel the difference?

There are people on the other side of the monitor too. They may not know something or not be able to. But this is not a reason for pressure, it is a reason to start a dialogue.

If the tank is not showing basic competency, no, I'm not going to offer advice; I'm going to force the issue. Again, no one should be asking for, negioiating, or whatever else, basic competency. If a tank cannot demonstrate basic competency, they should do us all a favour and not queue.

[MistakeNot]

If the tank is not showing basic competency, no, I'm not going to offer advice; I'm going to force the issue. Again, no one should be asking for, negioiating, or whatever else, basic competency. If a tank cannot demonstrate basic competency, they should do us all a favour and not queue.

Doing big pulls is not showing basic competency. It is showing impatience.
Players who insist on big pulls should do the tanking themselves - that way they get to decide the size of pulls.

[Eli85]

Doing big pulls is not showing basic competency. It is showing impatience.
Players who insist on big pulls should do the tanking themselves - that way they get to decide the size of pulls.

No, it's basic competency. Most tanks do employ basic competency. Those who do not make it miserable for the rest of the group. Why should the tank be more important than the rest of the group?

It's not about competency. I's about the comfort of the group. If you don't want to talk to people to ensure yours and their comfort and prefer stress, well, I'm sorry for you.

It is nothing to do with comfort. The tanks that do single pulls are playing the game very, very badly. You do not want to justify bad play, ever.

[Vahlnir]

No, it's basic competency. Most tanks do employ basic competency. Those who do not make it miserable for the rest of the group. Why should the tank be more important than the rest of the group?



It is nothing to do with comfort. The tanks that do single pulls are playing the game very, very badly. You do not want to justify bad play, ever.

The one thing you are leaving out is circumstance and points of view. Is the healer capable? Are the dps able to put out reasonable numbers? A lot of the time it takes an outside perspective to see such things. I'm all for large pulls, I sort of have to be, not that I have an issue with them anyway. However, a good tank also needs to learn how to read a room. Big pulls mean nothing if your healer and dps is subpar for pulls like that. And like I said, that is a bit easier to see from the outside looking in. Your default argument is "small pulls bad, big pulls good, git gud scrubs or git out". That's nice, how about you take various factors into account? It's not as black and white as you think.

[MistakeNot]

No, it's basic competency. Most tanks do employ basic competency. Those who do not make it miserable for the rest of the group. Why should the tank be more important than the rest of the group?

It is nothing to do with comfort. The tanks that do single pulls are playing the game very, very badly. You do not want to justify bad play, ever.

Nope, doing big pulls has nothing to do with competency. You can argue that being able to handle a big pull is basic competency, but actually doing big pulls or not has nothing to do with competency.


Unlike you I will claim that doing big pulls is actually a bad habit and sloppy tactics only made possible because enemies are weak.
Pulling big when the opponents actually are dangerous will result in a wipe, and is therefore a bad habit to get into.
Good tactics is to minimize the danger of each fight - hence small pulls are good tactics. That doing small pulls means the run takes a few minutes longer is of not important.

Doing really big pulls just means fights get more chaotic. Chaotic fights are bad.

[RajNish]

communication is key

Indeed. Communication is key in both ways. If you want your tank to go faster, you can tell them about it. But to run forward and aggro everything, forcing the tank to run between the pulls ... This is a bad idea.

If the tank is not showing basic competency, no, I'm not going to offer advice; I'm going to force the issue. Again, no one should be asking for, negioiating, or whatever else, basic competency. If a tank cannot demonstrate basic competency, they should do us all a favour and not queue.

It's not about competency. I's about the comfort of the group. If you don't want to talk to people to ensure yours and their comfort and prefer stress, well, I'm sorry for you.

[WaxSw]

Indeed. Communication is key in both ways. If you want your tank to go faster, you can tell them about it. But to run forward and aggro everything, forcing the tank to run between the pulls ... This is a bad idea.

Same could be said however to those who want to go slower, what you have to communicate is how you're going outside the norm either by being blazing fast or being slow as a snail