Dear Healers who don't DPS

[IttyBitty]

Emnity management is a group responsibility
HP management is a group responsibility
Mitigation is a group responsibility
DPS is a group responsibility

Anybody saying "I only want to <x>" just tells me they are lazy and selfish.

[Haxaan]

Emnity management is a group responsibility
HP management is a group responsibility
Mitigation is a group responsibility
DPS is a group responsibility

Anybody saying "I only want to <x>" just tells me they are lazy and selfish.

100% this ^

[fumofu]

Emnity management is a group responsibility
HP management is a group responsibility
Mitigation is a group responsibility
DPS is a group responsibility

Anybody saying "I only want to <x>" just tells me they are lazy and selfish.

If you're talking about some static savage group, then I guess that's ok. In pre-made groups feel free to do whatever you like. But if you're talking about random groups, your expectations are absurd.

"Emnity management is a group responsibility". Cos tank is too busy being in DPS stance and dps'ing? And btw is it true that in SHB SE gonna remove that waste-of-space DD role action for reduced emnity generation. Hope it is.

''HP management is a group responsibility'' . Yeah sure, let tanks and DD survive just by potions cos healer is too busy dps'ing.

"Mitigation is a group responsibility". On this i'm 50/50. Thing is if everyone has skills to reduce damage taken, they require less healing and that's not a good thing, therefore such skills should be removed from game, cos it breaks balance and that's why we now have such nonsense as 'healer should dps' going on.

"DPS is a group responsibility". In ultimate/savage/ex content sure, cos it's only really possible with static groups and these fights have such an absurd dps checks. But for normal content tanks nor healers shouldn't feel preasure to dps. Unless you want to speedrun, but then feel free to make your own group with like-minded people.

Generally all your statement in general shows you'd like to throw tank/healer/dps roles out of window completely and have every job do everything. Hope that'll never happen.

[Deceptus]

"Emnity management is a group responsibility". Cos tank is too busy being in DPS stance and dps'ing? And btw is it true that in SHB SE gonna remove that waste-of-space DD role action for reduced emnity generation. Hope it is.

Enmity Management absolutely is a group responsibility. Diversion, Lucid, Purification, Merciful Eyes, Elusive Jump, Refresh, Tactician, and most importantly Shadewalker and Smokescreen exist for a reason.

''HP management is a group responsibility'' . Yeah sure, let tanks and DD survive just by potions cos healer is too busy dps'ing.

Clemency, Second Wind, Bloodbath (which is super strong on melee), Merciful Eyes, Vercure, and yes potions exist. Even though most DPS forget about these abilities. Almost every single job has some form of self healing.

"Mitigation is a group responsibility". On this i'm 50/50. Thing is if everyone has skills to reduce damage taken, they require less healing and that's not a good thing, therefore such skills should be removed from game, cos it breaks balance and that's why we now have such nonsense as 'healer should dps' going on.

It's not just about damage taken. Troubador (all forms), Third Eye, Mana Ward, Feint, Apoc, mixed with Reprisal, Cover, TBN, and Shake it Off all provide mitigation Almost every single job has some form of mitigation, self or group.

"DPS is a group responsibility". In ultimate/savage/ex content sure, cos it's only really possible with static groups and these fights have such an absurd dps checks. But for normal content tanks nor healers shouldn't feel preasure to dps

In normal which you consider nothing, you realize that killing mobs faster is a form of mitigation right? The faster mobs die, the less overall damage they can do. So yeah, Healers, go all out while you still can. Use that Holy on every trash pull. It's an on demand Hallowed Ground without the CD.

Because Hydaelyn forbid people be responsible for group play. . .

[Lordfurious]

Enmity Management absolutely is a group responsibility. Diversion, Lucid, Purification, Merciful Eyes, Elusive Jump, Refresh, Tactician, and most importantly Shadewalker and Smokescreen exist for a reason.



Clemency, Second Wind, Bloodbath (which is super strong on melee), Merciful Eyes, Vercure, and yes potions exist. Even though most DPS forget about these abilities. Almost every single job has some form of self healing.



It's not just about damage taken. Troubador (all forms), Third Eye, Mana Ward, Feint, Apoc, mixed with Reprisal, Cover, TBN, and Shake it Off all provide mitigation Almost every single job has some form of mitigation, self or group.



In normal which you consider nothing, you realize that killing mobs faster is a form of mitigation right? The faster mobs die, the less overall damage they can do. So yeah, Healers, go all out while you still can. Use that Holy on every trash pull. It's an on demand Hallowed Ground without the CD.

Because Hydaelyn forbid people be responsible for group play. . .

I completely disagree. I do agree the Aggro management is everyone's responsibility but not because the tanks drop stance. Some tanks can't hold aggro against really good DPS even while in stance. You mentioned that every player should have the responsibility to heal. In my opinion that's probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read Because if a DPS is healing that is a humongous DPS drop for the entire group. And a Healer is not going to out DPS a DPS class. Your own arguments tells us why healer should stick to healing and wide DPS should stick to DPS and tanks should stay in stance and keep aggro.

[Deceptus]

I completely disagree.

You can disagree, but straight up, you're wrong. Group content requires a group effort. If you don't like it, don't group.

You mentioned that every player should have the responsibility to heal.

I never said that. I merely mentioned the myriad of ways to do it and encouraged people to do so. Context is pretty important. IF there's a raidwide AOE coming and you have something that can help mitigate some of that damage, it's irresponsible for you to not use it to better your group.

In my opinion that's probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read Because if a DPS is healing that is a humongous DPS drop for the entire group.

Pressing Second Wind, Bloodbath costs you essentially 0 dps loss, very negligible if there is a loss. You can weave them into a rotation pretty easily.

And a Healer is not going to out DPS a DPS class.

This is quite honestly an ignorant statement. You'd be surprised how many DPS I've out DPS'd as a healer in the 5 years I've been playing this. Especially now. Healer AOE (At least WHM and SCH) is ridiculous.

[Lordfurious]

You can disagree, but straight up, you're wrong. Group content requires a group effort. If you don't like it, don't group.



I never said that. I merely mentioned the myriad of ways to do it and encouraged people to do so. Context is pretty important. IF there's a raidwide AOE coming and you have something that can help mitigate some of that damage, it's irresponsible for you to not use it to better your group.



Pressing Second Wind, Bloodbath costs you essentially 0 dps loss, very negligible if there is a loss. You can weave them into a rotation pretty easily.



This is quite honestly an ignorant statement. You'd be surprised how many DPS I've out DPS'd as a healer in the 5 years I've been playing this. Especially now. Healer AOE (At least WHM and SCH) is ridiculous.

You're too much now you're saying that healers can out DPS the DPS class and DPS should heal. So then why do we have healers? Your arguments seem to be very circular and at the end of the day completely irrelevant as the changes are happening whether we like them or not. So this will become a mute point in the new expansion. But your Arguments for why healers should DPS included abilities that were not instant cast for DPS that would in fact take away from their rotation. You had also mentioned clemency and a few others so now the tank instead of using his cooldowns and keeping his hate combos active is now going to heal? You can go back and change what you said if you want but I read it a couple of times and what I took away from it is that you want other people to heal and you want healers to DPS. I'm sorry but I will not change my opinion that I find that completely silly. And if you're going to quote me please quote the whole thing as you have followed me and other forums doing the same exact thing trying to make it look different than what the comments really are taking them completely out of context by taking bits and pieces that you want and putting them together the way you see fit.

[IttyBitty]

tripe

Emnity management means using skills like smokescreen, lucid dreaming, tactician, refresh, shirk and provoke so that tanks have more opportunity to increase group DPS. You know, those things pretty much every class has access to.
HP management means not standing in aoes taking damage that you can avoid, or if you do, using your own oGCD healing options, or your mitigation before the hit lands. I never mentioned or even implied using potions, but go ahead and fill your boots if that's the weakass argument you're going to pull out.
Mitigation is a subset of HP management as it serves the same role (ie preventing you from reaching 0HP). If you can reduce the damage hitting the party, you make things easier for everybody else, thus freeing up valuable GCDs.
DPS is a group responsibility because DPS is the ultimate form of mitigation. There isn't enough damage going out to require constant healing. So you use your downtime to DPS. If you refuse to DPS then you are refusing to make use of your downtime, meaning you are standing around with your thumb up your ass for the majority of an encounter while everybody else is putting effort in. This makes you a lazy, self-entitled piece of garbage who doesn't value the time of everybody else in the party.

All of these statements would remain true even in the case that they ramped up incoming damage because healing has an upper limit that has to be met and once it has, any more is useless. The same would be true of tanking, even if they removed 95% of a tank's offensive skills bar one single target & AoE, and then get their own version of flash to spam for eternity. Because emnity too has an upper limit where it becomes worthless. There is no upper limit where DPS becomes worthless. If the enemy still has HP, more DPS is always welcome.

So no, it doesn't show that I'd like to throw roles out of the window. It shows I'm *not an idiot* and actually use all of the tools at my disposal as effectively as I can to help the group, regardless of my role.

[ForteNightshade]

"Emnity management is a group responsibility". Cos tank is too busy being in DPS stance and dps'ing? And btw is it true that in SHB SE gonna remove that waste-of-space DD role action for reduced emnity generation. Hope it is.

Yes, only because tank stance lost its damage penalty. Therefore, it's no longer a near 50% damage loss to sit in tank stance because the DPS are too lazy to press a oGCD that doesn't impact their rotation one bit. If you can't be bothered to press Diversion, why should I bother saving you from the tank buster?

"Because it's your job!" Except you're interrupting my playstyle~

''HP management is a group responsibility'' . Yeah sure, let tanks and DD survive just by potions cos healer is too busy dps'ing.

Okay. Friends and I did Ghimlyt Dark without a healer. I still did every mass pull and spot healed with Steel Cyclone. Expert dungeons are so pitifully weak, a non-DPSing healer is actually useless.

"Mitigation is a group responsibility". On this i'm 50/50. Thing is if everyone has skills to reduce damage taken, they require less healing and that's not a good thing, therefore such skills should be removed from game, cos it breaks balance and that's why we now have such nonsense as 'healer should dps' going on.

You do realize this makes tanks even more glorified DPS who only pop CDs when a buster comes out, yes? While I do think the mitigation tools available has become excessive. Taking them away entirely dumbs down tank gameplay. The better solution is to increase outgoing damage and/or nerf healing potencies. You achieve the same results without neutering tank responsibility to accomplish it.

"DPS is a group responsibility". In ultimate/savage/ex content sure, cos it's only really possible with static groups and these fights have such an absurd dps checks. But for normal content tanks nor healers shouldn't feel preasure to dps. Unless you want to speedrun, but then feel free to make your own group with like-minded people.

Translation: Tanks and healers can be lazy while DPS have to utilize their full kits. As we established, Expert dungeons hit like wet noodles. Why do healers have an excuse to AFK and watch Netflix yet if I only pressed 123 on Dragoon, I'd be called out for it?

"But it's your job to do damage!" And it's your job to benefit the party in whatever manner you can, either through healing or damage. If you get to only utilize half your kit, I'll do the same.

What the OP—in a two year old thread that is ironically quite relevant—has shown is responsible for an efficient run of any content falls onto everyone. And no one person should think themselves above another that they can skate by half-asking it. I am not going to spend an extra 10+ minutes in a dungeon because you want to watch Netflix or Youtube. How is that in any way considerate?

I completely disagree. I do agree the Aggro management is everyone's responsibility but not because the tanks drop stance. Some tanks can't hold aggro against really good DPS even while in stance. You mentioned that every player should have the responsibility to heal. In my opinion that's probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read Because if a DPS is healing that is a humongous DPS drop for the entire group. And a Healer is not going to out DPS a DPS class. Your own arguments tells us why healer should stick to healing and wide DPS should stick to DPS and tanks should stay in stance and keep aggro.

Except we aren't talking about bad tanks who have no idea how to play their job. Unless they are extremely undergeared, aggro won't be an issue for a decent tank... provided the DPS press an ability which does not impact their rotation whatsoever. Why should I spam Butcher's Block or Power Slash several times because Mr. Samurai can't be bothered to hit Diversion? More often than not, I'll be either riding very closely to said Samurai's damage or outright surpassing it.

Fortunately, this is a non-issue now since tank stance has no penalty and aggro management is basically nonexistent.

[Kabooa]

Translation: Tanks and healers can be lazy while DPS have to utilize their full kits. As we established, Expert dungeons hit like wet noodles. Why do healers have an excuse to AFK and watch Netflix yet if I only pressed 123 on Dragoon, I'd be called out for it?

Because it's an expert dungeon, and as you established, they're jokes and no one cares.