Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Aurum]

Logs listed in this post:
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/zXbgN...aling&source=8

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/8HDyt...ing&source=753

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/NQbWL...ing&source=129

This guy is trolling all of you. If you go into these logs and look at what the cohealers are doing what you'll see that:
- The astro in the first log precast aspected benefic and did 0 healing for the rest of the fight.
- The astro in the second log cast helios 5 times, aspected helios 5 times, used essential dignity once, and used collective unconscious once.
- The astro in the third log had 9 casts of aspected helios, 3 casts of helios, 1 essential dignity, and 3 casts of aspected benefic.

So in effect these white mages were all solo healing while their cohealers just did whatever.

[Saraphin]

This guy is trolling all of you. If you go into these logs and look at what the cohealers are doing what you'll see that:
- The astro in the first log precast aspected benefic and did 0 healing for the rest of the fight.
- The astro in the second log cast helios 5 times, aspected helios 5 times, used essential dignity once, and used collective unconscious once.
- The astro in the third log had 9 casts of aspected helios, 3 casts of helios, 1 essential dignity, and 3 casts of aspected benefic.

So in effect these white mages were all solo healing while their cohealers just did whatever.

that's right, this is the comparison ones (between the two healers and what they're doing)

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/compa...1,1&source=8,2
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/compa...source=753,643
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/compa...source=129,128

this shows that the WHM was doing a good portion of the healing while the AST was DPSing. not healing.

[javid]

This guy is trolling all of you. If you go into these logs and look at what the cohealers are doing what you'll see that:
- The astro in the first log precast aspected benefic and did 0 healing for the rest of the fight.
- The astro in the second log cast helios 5 times, aspected helios 5 times, used essential dignity once, and used collective unconscious once.
- The astro in the third log had 9 casts of aspected helios, 3 casts of helios, 1 essential dignity, and 3 casts of aspected benefic.

So in effect these white mages were all solo healing while their cohealers just did whatever.

you are lost..... I clearly indicated that the WHM was the MAIN HEALER... so you'd have to assume the off healer isnt doing much; and that is exactly the scenario you would need in order to make the comparison I demonstrate.

[Cynfael]

you are lost..... I clearly indicated that the WHM was the MAIN HEALER... so you'd have to assume the off healer isnt doing much; and that is exactly the scenario you would need in order to make the comparison I demonstrate.

It's widely acknowledged that the Main vs. Off-Healer meta is a dated one, and it's only likely to become more so with 4.0 eliminating CS timing as a consideration.

A log where the WHM has to heal a Savage encounter mostly alone doesn't constitute a representative (or particularly predictive) sample of WHM play.

[Saraphin]

It's widely acknowledged that the Main vs. Off-Healer meta is a dated one, and it's only likely to become more so with 4.0 eliminating CS timing as a consideration.

A log where the WHM has to heal a Savage encounter mostly alone doesn't constitute a representative (or particularly predictive) sample of WHM play.

As you say, the WHM wasn't the "Main Healer" it was the "Solo Healer". This is a very dedicated WHM that did that, but i can only imagine what they're MP reserves were, and i almost bet there was no MND/INT potions bot Max-Ether Pots used.

[javid]

It's widely acknowledged that the Main vs. Off-Healer meta is a dated one, and it's only likely to become more so with 4.0 eliminating CS timing as a consideration.

A log where the WHM has to heal a Savage encounter mostly alone doesn't constitute a representative (or particularly predictive) sample of WHM play.

Ah haaa!! While the first point of outdated Mainheal/Offheal isn't true in current meta nor will it be true moving forward towards Speed clear farm phases in the future. The second point is very much something to consider!

I don't feel like posting more logs, but I wouldn't be surprised if we pull stats on fights where both healers contribute about the same HPS, that the distribution of skills used in that cooperation won't vary too far from the Main healer/Off healer skill distributions.

I relented

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/7rpFC...ling&source=48

Took me a while to sort thru logs; but if you go bk to Fights HPS (total avg hps needed per fight); Then after obtaining that avg Fight HPS, cut it in half, then go to Personal HPS of that fight you just found, sort by WHM; then do a ton of page clicking until u get to the range of WHM HPS that matchs Fight HPS/2 . Above is an example of just one.

Below is a link that will put you in the Faust Z HPS/2 range, and you can check from there.

https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/13#b...ic=hps&page=97


with these examples; where the healing responsibility are shared between the two healers; WHM's main healer role (without a SCH!!) skill distribution matches the mostly solo Healing links I provided eariler. Same conclusions: you use more Cure I and IIs than anything else.

[Saraphin]

Ah haaa!! While the first point of outdated Mainheal/Offheal isn't true in current meta nor will it be true moving forward towards Speed clear farm phases in the future. The second point is very much something to consider!

I don't feel like posting more logs, but I wouldn't be surprised if we pull stats on fights where both healers contribute about the same HPS, that the distribution of skills used in that cooperation won't vary too far from the Main healer/Off healer skill distributions.

ok not to be The One, but the ones you posted? those three? The "co-healer" to the WHM touched their heals very little in comparison. meaning they were DPSing. not healing. Hence the numbers of uses of Cure 1/2.

[Aurum]

Ah haaa!! While the first point of outdated Mainheal/Offheal isn't true in current meta nor will it be true moving forward towards Speed clear farm phases in the future. The second point is very much something to consider!

I don't feel like posting more logs, but I wouldn't be surprised if we pull stats on fights where both healers contribute about the same HPS, that the distribution of skills used in that cooperation won't vary too far from the Main healer/Off healer skill distributions.

Using a specific log or two to back up your arguments on here is ridiculous in any case. If I wanted to I could cherry pick logs that supported the arguments "Good WHMs mainly use Cure3 for heals", or "Good WHMs mainly use Medica for heals".

[javid]

Using a specific log or two to back up your arguments on here is ridiculous in any case. If I wanted to I could cherry pick logs that supported the arguments "Good WHMs mainly use Cure3 for heals", or "Good WHMs mainly use Medica for heals".

This is an example of a troll... the fact that you said this means you did not go and do your homework (like my posted started off saying not to take my word for it; and then later encouraged you to do the heavily lifting yourself) and pull up the link to the full HPS page and click on parse after parse after parse after parse, while YES we can't have a conclusive report from looking at 1 to 3 parses, but if you took the time and looked up 10 or 15 of them, while still not conclusive, it would give you a general idea what may be going on.


BUT HUMOR ME...since you think the cherry picking to make a point is easy.... how about you find one that supports a different claim then what i suppose?? Should be easy right??

[Aurum]

This is an example of a troll... the fact that you said this means you did not go and do your homework (like my posted started off saying not to take my word for it; and then later encouraged you to do the heavily lifting yourself) and pull up the link to the full HPS page and click on parse after parse after parse after parse, while YES we can't have a conclusive report from looking at 1 to 3 parses, but if you took the time and looked up 10 or 15 of them, while still not conclusive, it would give you a general idea what may be going on.


BUT HUMOR ME...since you think the cherry picking to make a point is easy.... how about you find one that supports a different claim then what i suppose?? Should be easy right??

Here's an example of the power of cherry-picking to support an argument:

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/ptAZz...ing&source=403

You'll notice in this log that the whm and the sch had almost identical amounts healed, and that the whm cast med2 7 times and regen 6 times for a total of 13 casts. 2 cure 2s were cast along with 3 cure 1s for a total of 5 casts. If you were going to go by this data then clearly since medica 2 and regen were cast more times total than cure 1 and cure 2 then lily stacks should be tied to med2/regen, which may not necessarily be the case.