Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[RiisWolf]

If you're not in it to heal then why are you a healer? Why aren't you DPS where you belong?

Some say the lillies promote a single minded playstyle, when those same people are in fact single minded: having RAID UTILITY on the brain or DPS healing.

Some people forget why Spear card is fodder for royal road. It's because Arrow and Balance exists. The same goes to Bole, Spire and Ewer. In the scene where MIN/MAXers freak out over the tiny second, who cares if the DRG gets to use jumps 20~30% more often. Who cares if monk gets to use their 4 oGCDs more often. Who cares about any of that as long as everyone gets 10% more attack speed or damage! So who cares if you get to use assize 12 seconds faster! You shouldn't be using cure, use assize, they say! Because you're NOT here as a healer to heal. Don't lie to yourself. Let it sink in.

Oh right, let's forget which healer has the better AoEs, attacks, free spells, and no random 20% attack speed buff.

[Sclair0]

I think an easy tweak to confession and Plenary Indulgence would be to have confession proc from all healing, and then for planary indulgence to do a raid-wide heal on anyone with confession stacks. This stops it being yet another emergency tank heal and then turns it into a reward for good healing. With full confession stacks doing something like a Tetra and no stacks doing the equivalent of a Cleric Stance cure I.

[KingFrost]

Imma just repost something I posted in another thread. Just a random idea that someone probably already came up with in this thread, but it is waaaay too long to read. XD

Someone (probably) already previously​ stated it, but temporary HP would be an elegant solution.

Overheal converts into temporary hit points. Have it a Job trait called Bubble that replaces a job skill that's now cross role (It's even thematically fitting because WHM uses water, and water is the essence of life. It'd be nice to have another water based thingy). The amount allowed is either HP bases or potency based (I prefer the latter. The former could get a little crazy with War), with each lily added raising the ceiling on temporary HP allowed. Have Crits proc lilys as well as random Cures. Confession should be based on percentage of health healed (That is including overheal and temp HP) and last the duration of a fight.

There. WHM HoTs and mega heals (Leading to overcure) isn't such a burden, but actually a benefit. This effectively makes the "pure healer" so much of a healer, it turns overheal into real healing, and makes for amazing synergy with the other healers, not to mention actually being a safe, extremely preemptive healer. Perhaps Medica 2 would be a bit too strong, but if it's identity is supposed to be the pure healer, then so be it. Let it be strong as hell.

[Adventica6]

It's a shame we are so close to launch and the devs wan't to release this job in a very sub par /pathetic state compared to the other healers.

I thought this game had supervision? testers? proper management? people with passion ? what happened ? this looks like 1.0 team quality. The other jobs seem fine but this is just crap.

[Nytefrost]

If they added that the Lillys give you, let's say a 5% spell speed buff with each Lilly you'd saved up (so 15% MAX) you'd have to think about if you wanted to keep them for the faster casts or burn on a shorter cd. also with so many skills that can consume them you could make it so that each skill would count the number of Lillys for the cool down reduction then eat upto 2 of them allowing you to try and balance out the Lilly procs and which OCG would be best to use first or second.

As for the confessional stacks building up, they should make it so medica can proc them as well cause 90% of the time you're not gonna be burning a cure or cure II into a dps or healer, their all gonna go into the tanks, you could even make it so that IF your Regen / Medica II's regen ticks for a crit it would add a stack of Confessional to them aswell.

[Deheuty]

I have heard at least two related arguments for making WHM as the specialised healer and these include:

1) WHM is good for parties learning the fight.

2) WHM is good for parties who want to clear an endgame content with less risk of wiping (because they have a specialised healer).

To me, these two arguments are poor for two reasons:

1) People gradually learn the mechanics of any fight (endgame or no) very fast. Hence, WHM's advantage for clearing novel content dissipates very quickly - look at HW now. This is the end status of WHM after, say, a couple of months an xpac is released. WHM's corresponding demand will also drastically decrease months after SB's release and most WHM will be pressured to switch to AST/SCH because of this. Or worse, they might be replaced if they refused or statics that are created months after SB will refuse to LF WHM. This is the exact situation of what we have now for WHM.

2) Statics that have prolonged difficulty managing endgame mechanics (or any other boss mechanics) for the longest times, tend to be poor raiders. Let's admit that not all raiders are equally competent - just run Dun Scaith to see my point. Hence, what people using this argument is doing is essentially putting WHM's demand into statics that are relatively consisted of poorer raiders and do not put WHM on equal demand for the entire range of statics (i.e., poor to good). To put it in another way, WHMs are perpetually favoured by statics LF first clears - seasoned statics all LF AST/SCH replacements.


In addition, there is also the other consequence of the poor reputation of a static and WHM that includes a WHM developing over time - the presence of a WHM in a static might be used as a sign that a static might be mocked or regarded as 'poorer quality'. In addition, WHM being created as an 'easy' healer to play also creates this potential mockery of players playing this class... I think we have to think of the wider consequence for the statics accepting WHM and players who play WHM themselves with the direction this class is going into. This concern is not only for SB but applies for the general direction WHM has developed.

It appears unfitting to develop, what most considered, a classic healer role in the FF franchise, to such reputational consequence for both the static WHM is in and the players who play WHM with the direction WHM is taking.

[Nytefrost]

A gap filler at 40 "Divine Winds" an Aoe Esuna would be nice,like Selene's but more easily spammable

Other ideas, for dps: the line of water spells the frog's have would be good, give the WHM their full, Wind, Water, and Earth Triad, Fluid Aura was ok but fell short of the huge water spells adds have been using on us
A "Holy Ring" spell, they cast it on a target and enemies near them would take damage for the duration of the skill.
As for healing, a "Fount of Life" skill allowing them to turn a single target heal (Cure II for instance) into an Aoe cure with a 50% potency increase (Cure II's 700 > 1050 Aoe) with a 150s CD.
A skill to make WHM valuable would be a skill "Full Revival" allowing them, like in pvp, to revive a teammate without gaining weakness, could give it a 3 - 5 minute CD to try balancing it out but even the option would make people think about a whm over AST or SCH.
Even making Synestry a X-role skill would have been beneficial for white mage.

[Raposo]

Secret of the Lily: Every 10 seconds in combat, you gain a lily. When you cast Asylum, Assize, Tetragrammation or Divine Benison, all lilies are consumed and the cooldown of the ability used is reduced by an amount according to the number of lilies spent. 1: 10%; 2: 20%; 3: 30%.

Secret of the Lily II: When you cast Raise and have 3 lilies, your lilies will be consumed and your target will be raised without the weakness status.

Keeper of Confessions: When a party member that had 50% or less HP receives healing from your healing spells, they gain a Confession from you if the spell cast healed them above 50%. Confessions may be stacked up to 3 times and fade away if the target leaves combat.

Plenary Indulgence: Consume Confession stacks of your nearby party members to apply an increase to healing they will receive from your next healing spell. This increase is based on how many Confession stacks were consumed. 1: +20%; 2: +40%; 3: +60%. Duration: 10s. Instant cast, 180s cooldown.

[Kacho_Nacho]

In addition, WHM being created as an 'easy' healer to play also creates this potential mockery of players playing this class...

Ppthbbbbbb!

[javid]

Don't take my word for it...

Sadly we have a highly uniformed community which is excessively opinionated?? Lets take a step back and consider a few FACTS.





FACTS:

SE has access to all our game memory files (the real fflogs) and are able to from statistics on just about anything we can imagine, to include: "which skills are used most, when they are used, and how efficiently skills are used!"


FACTS:

While we are not SE, we too, ffxiv community, have access to a database with 100's of thousands of entries from all kinds of players, doing all kinds of things, whereby we can mimic SE's ability (on a smaller scale) to form stats on a multitude of things, to include: "which skills are used most, when they are used, and how efficiently skills are used!"




Section 1: The Proposition

For example: throughout our current tier of Creator Savage fflogs provides a stats that spans the entirety of the relevant patches(from when it first came out even into echos).

One of the stats in particular I want to mention is: Fight HPS

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/12#region=1&metric=fighthps&timespan=1000

Fight HPS- is the combined NON OVERHEALING, heals the entire party provides per second over the complete duration of a Fight.However this stat doesn't take into consideration mitigation (tank direct dmg reducing CDs and other direct dmg reducing CDs: rampart, Red mind, virus, e4e, etc). Nevertheless it gives us an idea of what each fight demands from the party in total heals per second.


Okay Jay, where are you going with this...

Well one of the points I'm trying to make is: since we can tell which fights require more raid HPS and which fights require lower HPS, we can dig deeper into each kind of fight (low & high HPS fights) and find out:

1. How the healing requirements are being addressed?
2. What skills are being used the most to address the healing requirements?
3. Which skills are they using most efficiently?
4. Which skills are often in excess?

WARNING:- the definition of "efficiency" referenced in this post is a measure of (effective potency/max potency). This definition of efficiency is NOT a reference to potency/MP NOR is it a reference to potency/gcd. IT IS A STRICT COMPARISON of a skill's actual output compared to its potential max output. For example if you use a regen on a tank that dies 6 seconds after you applied that regen he would have only received 300 potency out of the max 1050 (assuming those ticks weren't overheals....); that would make the Potency efficiency of that regen on that tank 300/1050; This is an example of the definition of the "efficiency" being reference here. (this warning was brought to you by the number trolls that ensue and insisted that the word "efficiency" can ONLY be use to refer to their ratios of choice and no other ratios..... :P)




Since we're on a WHM forum, we're most interested in "How does main-healer WHM handles such-and-such fights;"





Section 2: The Analysis


The highest HPS Fight throughout all of Savage, throughout all of progression into echos, and upwards of 75% HPS percentiles, IS FAUST Z For those of you that play, you KNOW why this requires the highest HPS(faust hits very hard and hits very fast).

If you filter the logs for all Faust Z encounters, then filter for HPS, and lastly filter for WHM; you'll be able to gauge how the highest HPS WHMs address this fight, down through the way to the lowest HPS WHMs answers to this fight are. (note: in fights where the off healer is a sch, the way WHM deals with healing will be skewed b/c EMBRACE replaces a ton of cures at ZERO GCD cost to the SCH...keep this in mind!!!)

Here is one example of a pre-echo WHM's high HPS without a SCH off healer

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/zXbgNJBdFf32cK7m#fight=1&type=healing&source=8

THINGS TO NOTICE

• 4 regens overhealed 30% of the time
• 6 cure II overhealed 6% of the time
• 4 cure III overhealed 42% of the time
• 6 cure I over healed 17% of the time
• 0 medica II (for this one example)

From these stats you can tell which skills were most used, which skills were most efficiently used, and which skill were most in excess. Granted this is just ONE EXAMPLE, but I'll leave the homework for you to do and see if this one example is indicative of the majority of examples.



Now, two of the lowest HPS required fights in all of Savage are Refurbisher and Cruise Chaser. Here are examples of each, following the same format as my last listing.

Refurbisher

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/8HDytYpwNb7JfPQx#fight=33&type=healing&source=753

THINGS TO NOTICE

• 17 regens overhealed 20% of the time
• 20 cure II overhealed 6% of the time
• 1 cure III overhealed 4% of the time
• 44 cure I overhealed 2% of the time
• 7 medica II overhealed 52% of the time

Cruise Chaser

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/NQbWLv97MypqTkfY#fight=9&type=healing&source=129

THINGS TO NOTICE

• 25 regens overhealed 24% of the time
• 9 cure II overhealed 32% of the time
• 1 cure III overhealed 4% of the time
• 47 cure I overhealed 12% of the time
• 12 medica II overhealed 20% of the time

Section 3: The Moral of the Story...

What this wall of text and data highly suggest is.... your most used skills in raid (non-echo) are your CURE I .... & CURE II! The most efficiently used skills in raid (non-echo) are your CURE I .... & CURE II! So... if SE wanted to make a RNG system that procs off of the frequent use of your toolset and ENCOURAGES efficient play-style what skills would fit better than your CURE I .... & CURE II!???




(this is an example of an informed opinion....how about we do more of this, and less of b*tching and moaning without data to back it up? just a thought...)



P.S. A valid concern has been brought up that these parses listed and the other that can be found using the set parameters given, are not a close representation of how the nominal 2 EQUALLY HEALING party compositions would behave. The opposing argument suggests that if a search were done where the WHM's HPS, more or less, matches the co-healers HPS (assuming still the co healer isn't a SCH, but embrace cost no players GCDs), that the WHM distribution of skills used would be completely different than the SOLO HEALING WHM data listed above.

I won't do the whole post over but I did go bk to Fight HPS, found out what the avg Fight HPS is for Faust Z, divided that Fight HPS in half, then I went into the Faust Z parse listings and sorted by HPS and click thru the pages until I land to where the WHM's HPS = Faust Z HPS/2; then I looked at the skill distributions and found no SIGNIFICANT skill distribution that deviated from the solo healing WHM's HPS rotation .

here is a link to Faust Z HPS where both healers are about the same but the WHM is clearly the main healer (these are about 60/40 or 55/45 Whm/co-healer).

https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/13#b...ic=hps&page=97