#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Silver-Strider]

Not really. If the tank is bad/new he won't pull wall to wall and do nothing and if needed will be told to just take it slower. Not to mention dungeons are made how they are made and it's not that easy to one-shot a tank if it can happen the boss for example is stationary and won't be that annoying to others while the tank gets a rez. In 8-man there are 2 tanks.

And if for whatever reason tank is taking excess damage due to for example lack of gear then if the healer isn't bad it still will be fine. You need a really bad tank and healer for a dungeon group to fail/struggle.

It's their design, it works, and has some flaws, but still checks out. There won't be any sudden changes, at best we can "hope" they put some time and effort into 8.0 in ~2 years. And if not pray return for 9.0...

You would think that but that's not what normally happens. What normally happens is you have a tank with broken gear in Matoya's Relict that can't hold aggro but still does big pulls despite auto attacks taking him from full to dead before the mobs are even gathered together, leaving you to blow all your oGCDs keeping yourself and the DPS alive to try and salvage the botched pull before voting dismiss on the tank.

[Connor]

Why does everyone act like Stormblood healers were some paragon of perfect healers?

You know what I remember healers talking about during Stormblood? Wanting more DPS abilities lol . I’ve seen requests to turn Selene into a dps fairy since literally 2017. ‘Give back Cleric Stance’ ‘Give Scholar fester’, ‘Make White Mages do Thundercloud on Aero’ ‘Split all DoTs further so we have to apply every individual level again’ ‘Delete Astrologian’s utility cards and make it all damage’ (those requests sound familiar…huh?) Like, Stormblood’s dps skills weren’t enough for healers then, so seems weird they’d suddenly fix all the healers currently.

I think Sharknado has a point. People have been trying this ‘feedback’ for literally 4 expansions now to absolutely no avail. Sooner or later doesn’t one have no choice but to accept that they simply don’t want to do that for whatever reason. And I mean, you can argue about ‘game design’ or how ‘healers can’t heal because accessibility’ until the cows come home, the devs will make whatever decisions they think is right regardless of how ‘technically accurate’ someone’s feedback is. Like, surely there has to come a point where it’s like ‘ok they’ve went 8 years without listening to a single word I say, guess I’ll just go somewhere else I might actually enjoy’. What benefit is there in continuing to ask for the exact same thing that they’ve said no to in the first place, for another 8+ years or whatever?

Hell as someone who plays support/buffer jobs in most other games I’ve simply accepted that I will not ever find a job in this game that actually fits my preferred playstyle. It’s just not happening. I could keep screaming at SE to fulfill this niche (instead of some fake dps supports like Bard and Dancer) like I have been since like, 2013 lol. Or I could just accept that it’s never going to happen and play a different game and save myself the stress and heartache lol. And frankly I wouldn’t be surprised if they moved every job even further towards pure DPS in future. Sometimes things just are what they are, and no matter how much you wished they were different, they aren’t going to be lol (like my dream of a real Bard and not a barcher lol)

Ironically despite how many requests and threads there were about further dps expansion for healers in Stormblood, we got Shadowbringers instead. Can’t wait to see how the devs react this time (‘Heal role removed, renamed support dps, all heal gcds removed, tanks do all healing now’)

[Alice_Rivers]

It makes sense to me that healers would naturally seek to do more dps when we're in a good spot in our primary role. Of course it's true that a fair number of people here are still calling for more healer dps/abilities but I think everyone agrees that the state of healing is so bad that it needs attention more immediately than dps. If the devs fix healing I'm sure we'll see more threads about how "healer dps is unengaging" "healers need a dps rotation" "healer dps is too low" "devs! Play MSQ as healer! See how slow and boring it is compared to everything else!" which honestly I think is leagues better than "#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE".

[AmiableApkallu]

If the devs fix healing I'm sure we'll see more threads about how "healer dps is unengaging" "healers need a dps rotation" "healer dps is too low" "devs! Play MSQ as healer! See how slow and boring it is compared to everything else!" which honestly I think is leagues better than "#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE".

A small bit of history: We already had all those threads. The OP in #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE itself cites a four year old summary of the main issues.

[Connor]

It makes sense to me that healers would naturally seek to do more dps when we're in a good spot in our primary role. Of course it's true that a fair number of people here are still calling for more healer dps/abilities but I think everyone agrees that the state of healing is so bad that it needs attention more immediately than dps. If the devs fix healing I'm sure we'll see more threads about how "healer dps is unengaging" "healers need a dps rotation" "healer dps is too low" "devs! Play MSQ as healer! See how slow and boring it is compared to everything else!" which honestly I think is leagues better than "#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE".

I agree, but that doesn’t seem to be the general solution offered by the thread. The solution is ‘give healers more dps abilities but make them decision-based resource-costing irregularly timed nukes and dots and somehow so wholly optional that the normies will never be expected to use them (frankly I don’t see this situation ever existing in ffxiv lol).

Then as soon as someone mentions healing suddenly it’s
‘We can’t put healing requirements above what they are now or normies can’t handle it’
‘We can’t make healers heal because it’s impossible because game design so just delete a bunch of heals and turn them into dps’
‘Healers had more nukes in the battle system that was effectively a different one from what we have now therefore they should go back to that design from 8 years ago’

I mean, personally, I’m pretty sure most of the ‘more dps options’ perspective is filtered through savage/ultimare content. Dps uptime is an actual concern, decisions between healing and dps aren’t 99% weighted towards dps (because no healing requirement), MP (might?) actually be taxed.

Outside of that however? They could give us 100 dps abilities and they could be the most powerful and flashy skills in existence; it would still be business as usual outside of savage. Just with a couple extra steps (that are supposed to be optional except nobody doing normal content has any excuse not to be dps’ing 100% of the time, so…)

[Aravell]

Why does everyone act like Stormblood healers were some paragon of perfect healers?

Perfect? No. Leagues better than the travesty we have now? Yes.

It's understandable to want what worked in the game before and is also more fun that what we have right now. All the speculation about "make healers heal 80% of the time" or "make healers caster DPS with some healing" are all untested, but Stormblood healers? We had them, we played them, and they worked fine.

[Alice_Rivers]

A small bit of history: We already had all those threads. The OP in #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE itself cites a four year old summary of the main issues.

Having seen people in game and on the forum I didn't actually need that spelled out, hence "more threads".

I agree, but that doesn’t seem to be the general solution offered by the thread. The solution is ‘give healers more dps abilities but make them decision-based resource-costing irregularly timed nukes and dots and somehow so wholly optional that the normies will never be expected to use them (frankly I don’t see this situation ever existing in ffxiv lol).

Then as soon as someone mentions healing suddenly it’s
‘We can’t put healing requirements above what they are now or normies can’t handle it’
‘We can’t make healers heal because it’s impossible because game design so just delete a bunch of heals and turn them into dps’
‘Healers had more nukes in the battle system that was effectively a different one from what we have now therefore they should go back to that design from 8 years ago’

I mean, personally, I’m pretty sure most of the ‘more dps options’ perspective is filtered through savage/ultimare content. Dps uptime is an actual concern, decisions between healing and dps aren’t 99% weighted towards dps (because no healing requirement), MP (might?) actually be taxed.

Outside of that however? They could give us 100 dps abilities and they could be the most powerful and flashy skills in existence; it would still be business as usual outside of savage. Just with a couple extra steps (that are supposed to be optional except nobody doing normal content has any excuse not to be dps’ing 100% of the time, so…)

I can't actually speak to stormblood healing, I've only read about the old systems and much as that era of AST appeals to me I don't like the idea of Cleric Stance making a return. I like the current model around which healer jobs are built and function, I just don't like the environment within which they operate, to me the heals are good, the tools function well and if 60/70% of my uptime were some kind of healing I wouldn't object to the one or two button dps filler. I don't object to it now but I do recognise that it's not for everyone and as far as I'm concerned the more people who actually play healers to heal that healers appeal to the merrier, if appealing to more healers means having a 1-2-3 dps rotation rather than a 1+DoT then so be it - so long as that rotation isn't disrupted by actually healing.

Hence the common thread in my comments here that I want healing fixed, and more dps as a secondary matter.

[Connor]

Perfect? No. Leagues better than the travesty we have now? Yes.

It's understandable to want what worked in the game before and is also more fun that what we have right now. All the speculation about "make healers heal 80% of the time" or "make healers caster DPS with some healing" are all untested, but Stormblood healers? We had them, we played them, and they worked fine.

In my experience during Stormblood, again, healers were very much the same as what we have now just with a couple extra steps to achieve the same (dps) result. Like as a Scholar you could use Miasma II with almost complete impunity in normal content unless you weren’t hitting Aetherflow/Energy Drain/Lucid Dreaming (though maybe that was still Shroud of Saints lol). Who needs MP when you have Excogitation?

And this was before things like Recitation and Seraphism existed, so by today’s standards there would be practically nothing ever clashing with things like DoT timers in a way that you’d ever have to actually consider how/when they’re applied. You just apply them the exact same way every X amount of seconds and just move your many oGCDs around that. Stormblood was very much what I think of as a ‘conveyor belt rotation’. It’s a straight line of ‘use xyz dot, filler, reapply dots in zyx order, repeat’. It doesn’t branch in any meaningful way because that’s not how FFXIV’s healing works (oGCDs don’t affect the belt).

Stormblood healers might sound better on paper, but personally I found them just as hard to enjoy as they are now. Making decisions between healing and damage? That doesn’t bother me. Having illusory ‘decisions’ that inevitably all end in the same outcome (‘use the dps’)? I feel like that’s what we’d get if we went back to ‘Stormblood’ design

[Ramiee]

Stormblood healers might sound better on paper, but personally I found them just as hard to enjoy as they are now. Making decisions between healing and damage? That doesn’t bother me. Having illusory ‘decisions’ that inevitably all end in the same outcome (‘use the dps’)? I feel like that’s what we’d get if we went back to ‘Stormblood’ design

You can water this down to every single job in the game, there isn't any real decisions of any job theres a specific rotation every single one is designed to follow. But I have to say spamming 3-4 buttons over spamming 1 button feels more fun.

[Connor]

You can water this down to every single DPS job in the game, there isn't any real decisions of any job theres a specific rotation every single one is designed to follow. But I have to say spamming 3-4 buttons over spamming 1 button feels more fun.

I’d like to hope they at least make a little bit of effort to differentiate the roles in some way, personally. Just because DPS (and tanks probably idk) are so heavily rotation based doesn’t mean healers need to be. I mean, isn’t one of the main draws of the role ‘no rotation’? Seems a bit silly to just discard that aspect. And I mean, DPS not having their own meaningful decisions to make outside of ‘press glowing button’ is very much an issue to me too.

Personally I’d rather have 2 abilities and actually have to consider what I use and when, than 4 abilities you just repeat ad infinitum. To me 1 button is no more or less fun than 30 unless there’s some modicum of thought around their application. I mean, you could argue ‘ffxiv doesn’t support that design’, but then, it doesn’t support basically anything except everything staying as stagnant as it is now anyway, so sooner or later they’re going to have to do something about it