#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[AmiableApkallu]

The problem I imagine is that the "optional ceiling" ceases to be optional when encounter design necessitates that you can't get away with just being flashy and breezy. Dawntrail for example upped the ante on what the typical normal-content-only player had to do in order to advance and it wasn't met well by some of them.

The "optional ceiling" here has little to nothing to do with Dawntrail's perceived increase in difficulty. There aren't any DPS checks. There aren't any healing checks. I'm 100% certain I dropped multiple GCDs in a row, interrupted multiple casts, etc., etc., the first (and second, and third...) time I cleared Dawntrail's dungeons and trials.

Dawntrail's MSQ didn't ask you (the generic "you") to play your job better. It asked you to become more observant with respect to the tells for incoming attacks and to dodge them.

[AmiableApkallu]

Why exactly encounters became the "hard part" while jobs didn't, I can only assume it's because they didn't want anybody's favorite job to feel like it couldn't participate in certain content, so every job had to be made viable even if that resulted in homogenization or over-simplification. "No jobstone left behind" and such.

Hot take: Encounters became the "hard part" in a way that ignores the existence of roles and jobs. Spread. Stack. In. Out. Go left. Go right. Do the hokey pokey. None of that cares whether you're a tank, healer, melee DPS, or ranged DPS. Every job becomes viable when all that an encounter requires is that whatever warm bodies exist not stand in the bad.

Add in a DPS check, and maybe we start to care that everyone can maintain uptime. Add in a tank buster with a Damage Up debuff, and maybe we start to care that there's a second tank. Add in a "hard hitting" raid wide, and maybe we start to care that there's a healer around somewhere.

Rather than design encounters so that the jobs in the roles and sub-roles each have their part to play -- which would be a meaningful form of participation -- it would seem that SE has decided to see how far they can go with turning jobs into generic warm bodies.

[Kacho_Nacho]

Hot take: Encounters became the "hard part" in a way that ignores the existence of roles and jobs. Spread. Stack. In. Out. Go left. Go right. Do the hokey pokey. None of that cares whether you're a tank, healer, melee DPS, or ranged DPS. Every job becomes viable when all that an encounter requires is that whatever warm bodies exist not stand in the bad.

Add in a DPS check, and maybe we start to care that everyone can maintain uptime. Add in a tank buster with a Damage Up debuff, and maybe we start to care that there's a second tank. Add in a "hard hitting" raid wide, and maybe we start to care that there's a healer around somewhere.

Rather than design encounters so that the jobs in the roles and sub-roles each have their part to play -- which would be a meaningful form of participation -- it would seem that SE has decided to see how far they can go with turning jobs into generic warm bodies.

That's it. You hit the nail on the head.

[Azurarok]

Wasn't that a little bit what Hydaelyn EX's add phase was? DPS needing to breaking crystals while tanks kite adds and healers keep the tanks alive.

Guess they could've put in some raidwides during that but iirc the adds hit pretty hard as it was. Then ILs went up and we eventually got solo tank/healer runs going

[Shurrikhan]

Hot take: Encounters became the "hard part" in a way that ignores the existence of roles and jobs. Spread. Stack. In. Out. Go left. Go right. Do the hokey pokey. None of that cares whether you're a tank, healer, melee DPS, or ranged DPS. Every job becomes viable when all that an encounter requires is that whatever warm bodies exist not stand in the bad.

Add in a DPS check, and maybe we start to care that everyone can maintain uptime. Add in a tank buster with a Damage Up debuff, and maybe we start to care that there's a second tank. Add in a "hard hitting" raid wide, and maybe we start to care that there's a healer around somewhere.

Rather than design encounters so that the jobs in the roles and sub-roles each have their part to play -- which would be a meaningful form of participation -- it would seem that SE has decided to see how far they can go with turning jobs into generic warm bodies.

And the sad thing is that you can absolutely have healing, tanking, and damage-dealing matter in less immediately obvious / all-or-nothing ways in encounters, even just through the combination of positional tendencies and differing outputs, if only you had some undermechanics to allow for interception and more granular short-term checks (such as through something dealing as much damage as it has health remaining, debuffs ignored so long as they don't drop you below X% HP, DoTs that tick until raised above X% HP, etc).

[Rolder50]

Gettin pretty close to 1000 pages innit. And healers only get worse.

[Kacho_Nacho]

Gettin pretty close to 1000 pages innit. And healers only get worse.

986 pages and 9857 posts. At this point, it is clear Creative Studio III is going out of its way to ignore us. There is no way the forum moderators would not mentioned this thread to someone.

[Aravell]

986 pages and 9857 posts. At this point, it is clear Creative Studio III is going out of its way to ignore us. There is no way the forum moderators would not mentioned this thread to someone.

I feel like the fact that the playerbase happily blames other parts of the community for any faults they see with the game means that SE can eternally hide behind their shield of "Players don't know what they want and can't agree on anything, that's why we can't change anything!".

I think if we're capable of presenting a united front of "We want changes for this thing because it's just badly designed, we don't care about the details, just change it", that would be much harder to ignore.

Unfortunately, trying to get the community to present a united front is effectively impossible (because people understandably put importance on different things, like some people want everything just balanced with 0% deviation with no regard to fun), so we're unlikely to see any changes until the dev team does their experiment in 8.0.

[Kes13a]

Unfortunately, trying to get the community to present a united front is effectively impossible (because people understandably put importance on different things, like some people want everything just balanced with 0% deviation with no regard to fun), so we're unlikely to see any changes until the dev team does their experiment in 8.0.

I doubt the "8.0 experiment" will be all that much of a change. whether or not we all agree on the same thing, as consumers of the game, the fact that a single thread has gotten this large with zero acknowledgement from SE tells me they are in their ivory tower, healing in their mind is perfect and needs no changes. thats fine, they are entitled to think that, and once I feel thy no longer earn my money, I will stop giving it to them. I have left far bigger games than 14, and never looked back.

[Oizen]

8.0 job identity isnt even real