#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Dhregin]

Stopping you there. That is cheating and cheesing.

It's the never ending argument on this forum between people who want to play the game the way it was intended, and the people who play the cat and mouse game of "am I going to get caught cheating the new raid."
https://www.polygon.com/23581166/fin...-party-plug-in

This has happened every single time. If you got a bunch of people who want to cheese the fight by only permissible means, that is one thing. But the minute you need a third party tool, you're no longer playing the game as it was intended and defying the wishes of the developers.

If you want to play a healer. You are only required to heal. Nobody anything says is correct no matter how much they insist. That sure is a boring way to play, but you're not obligated to play by any nonsense meta that has never been true.

I'm going to do my best not to appear rude here, but I think your moral/emotional arguement is being pushed up agains ForsakenRoe's Logical arguement. Its not a "meta" requirement, they're referencing, its a DPS-CHECK requirement.

The DPS Checks in this game are mostly lenient where, yes, a Healer could succeeed without doing DPS - but at the Savage level (on Content & no echo) and at the Ultimate Level (at any time), you can't meet the DPS check before Enrage if Healers are just healing. They are correct in that it is mathmatically impossible to achieve without each member of the group contributing damage - including healers. You can call it cheating to know that it is mathmaticallly impossible (or close to it, depending on the case), but that is generally well-accepted knowledge by the average player who actively participates in the raiding content this game offers - even those who swear off of all add-ons.

Your lack of experience in the game is why you are championing the cause of Healers only need to heal. The Developers shifted the DPS requirements of content to require support players to also focus on damage back prior to Heavensward (Time line might be a little wrong, its been 10 years so cut me some slack), because of Player Demand - and it has been that way ever since. This bred the well known meme, healers are Green DPS. Tanks are Blue DPS.

Lets not get uppity and big-ego'd because we disagree emotionally with something. Base your rebuttals on something more substantial than "This is my belief" for a more constructive and objective-based discussion.

Othewise, you're just shouting into the void for no discernable reason other than to be upset with other people... and that's just obnoxious I'm sure you agree! I've done it plenty of times. I'm a very obnoxious person.

Anyway, o7

[Somnolence]

Its not a "meta" requirement, they're referencing, its a DPS-CHECK requirement.

Don't tell him that devs even made so you can verify DPS-CHECK requirements for such content on Stone, Sky, Sea dummies for healer roles as well

[Galvuu]

Don't tell him that devs even made so you can verify DPS-CHECK requirements for such content on Stone, Sky, Sea dummies for healer roles as well

That person queuing into SSS as a healer, proceeding to stare down the dummy, do 0 dps, shout "cheating" as the Duty Failed message appears would make for top tier content, tbh.

[KisaiTenshi]

Your lack of experience in the game is why you are championing the cause of Healers only need to heal.

I come from 1.0 thanks. I've seen the arguments, and I've seen how the content has never changed to REQUIRE DPS from the healer. Between the developers confirming that, and poorly skilled players complaining about DPS numbers for purely egotistical reasons, not once has anyone shown where a piece of content in the game was actually designed as not completable by playing it as designed.

Media Tour 2021:

Mrhappy1227: Healers in Final Fantasy XIV often discuss how often they are casting DPS spells despite being healers. Often nicknaming jobs like White Mage a “Glare Mage” as an example. The Media Tour build has some new healing skills that also have damage components to them. Has the team taken any feedback from the players on improving interactivity with the healers? Whether that be more interesting DPS skills or more prominent healing requirements.

ヒーラーに関してなんですけれども、XIVの…ガチ勢じゃないですけれどもそういったヒーラーをプレイしている人たちの中で、空いた時間に攻撃アビリティをキャストする人たちがいるので、特に白魔に関しては「グレアメイジ」と呼んでいる人たちがいたりします。で、今回のメディアツアーの仕様をさせていただいた際に、もちろん新しいヒールスキルも加えているのですけれども、攻撃する様子の含まれているようなヒールもあったりして、なかなか興味深かったです。で、今後のプレイヤーのヒーラーとしてのインターアクティヴァティ、例えば攻撃系の魔法に関して、より幅を広げるのか、それともヒーラーに特化したヒール関連のアビリティを今後強化していくなどの、今後のイメージというか、そういうお考えがあれば教えてください。

Yoshida: So I totally understand that those healers that have a very high player skill level and they’ve really mastered their jobs go into these different raids or battles and when they do have some downtime between their heals they do cast more offensive spells. Some of them desire to have more technical aspects of it so they are more active and I totally understand that sentiment. But of course the basis of a healer is to heal so I think the development team and I have this thinking of getting that sense of exhilaration from doing really good heal work.

That being said I don’t think we would do any sort of dramatic addition of offensive skills moving forward. By having these offensive abilities some players, like new healers, might feel pressured like “oh do I have to have good DPS while I’m healing?” or some players might be aggressive like “oh hey you have an offensive skill in your kit, why don’t you use it?” and I don’t think that’s optimal either.

But of course we do have the new job, Sage, which will allow for this unique gameplay where if you land an attack it heals at the same time. Or if there’s like a particular barrier ability that you cast and once that’s depleted it increases the resource which could lead to an attack which is very unique. I think players would be interested in trying that out for sure.
ヒーラーでかつレイドをやっててプレイヤースキル高い人ほど、やっぱり空いた時間に攻撃をしたい。そうなってくるともっと攻撃にテクニカル生かしたい、まあ、なる気持ちはわかる。ただどちらかと言うとベースはヒーラーなので、やっぱりコンテンツ側の攻撃を激しくして、まず上手いヒールワークをすることで楽しめるっていうようにしていきたいのはベースにあります、僕らとしては。

だからこれ以上激的にヒーラーに攻撃手段とか攻撃のローテーションを加えるみたいなことは多分やらないと思います。それがあることによって新しくヒーラーを始めた人とかニュービーとかが「ヒーラーなのに攻撃しなきゃいけない」って思ってしまうのが、あと他人から要求される「攻撃しろよ」って「そのスキルが用意されてから攻撃しろ」ってことなんだからってなっちゃうのはあんまり良くはないかなと思ってます、正直。

ただ、そうは言っても今回「賢者」っていう新しいバリアヒーラーは攻撃すると回復が走ったり、張ったバリアが消滅すると攻撃リソースを得てさらに攻撃してみたいの形で、ちょっと面白いジョブになってると思うので、そういった方はぜひ賢者を一度触っていただけると嬉しいかなと思います。

[Shurrikhan]

I come from 1.0 thanks. I've seen the arguments, and I've seen how the content has never changed to REQUIRE DPS from the healer. Between the developers confirming that, and poorly skilled players complaining about DPS numbers for purely egotistical reasons, not once has anyone shown where a piece of content in the game was actually designed as not completable by playing it as designed.

When you ignore all evidence given, as recently even as within the past few pages, of the curvature of the Earth content that requires dps from healers, then sure enough, in effect no one has shown a single piece of content in the game designed to require dps from the healers.

When you don't, however, that evidence remains. Such as even in literal MSQ solo scenarios. Or multiple Savage fights. Or, indirectly, the ToA, for which the developers have confirmed that refusal to deal damage in one's spare time is a kickable offense under "Lethargic play".

Yet, unskilled yet highly defensive players prefer to tout an almost immediately disproven errant quote from the first few years of the game in an attempt to defend for themselves said lethargic play contrary to the actual ToA.

Also: Healers dealt damage in their spare time even in 1.0.

[Bobby66]

When you ignore all evidence given, as recently even as within the past few pages, of the curvature of the Earth content that requires dps from healers, then sure enough, in effect no one has shown a single piece of content in the game designed to require dps from the healers.

When you don't, however, that evidence remains. Such as even in literal MSQ solo scenarios. Or multiple Savage fights. Or, indirectly, the ToA, for which the developers have confirmed that refusal to deal damage in one's spare time is a kickable offense under "Lethargic play".

Yet, unskilled yet highly defensive players prefer to tout an almost immediately disproven errant quote from the first few years of the game in an attempt to defend for themselves said lethargic play contrary to the actual ToA.

Also: Healers dealt damage in their spare time even in 1.0.

Using leveling or solo content is slightly disingenuous that being said the damage tools available currently are enough to clear said content. As for group content it is the same as it is in WoW outside of world first clears or higher end content like Mythic or Ultimate healer dps is not required for the clear. Have yet to try it but I am even willing to bet said content could even be cleared with a heal bot it probably would be close but possible.

Even the lethargic play is a weird one cause even that can be defended based on the content. I do not see a single person here saying healers should not use their entire kit in savage or ultimate. Yes, a proper argument can be made that healer damage matters for ultimate. I do wonder about the math and wonder if it is possible to clear without healer dps. I do believe numbers wise as each week passes healer damage becomes less important.

Isn't this strike about normal play? Even the quote from Yoshi-P back in 2021 seems to cement that they do not wish to push people into the green dps mindset or at the very least will remain easy as a healer so it is easier for people to juggle.

Guess what I am saying most content outside of higher end stuff seems to be balanced around a certain skill level in mind.

[ForsakenRoe]

Media Tour 2021:

I love that interview, because of this line:

'Or if there’s like a particular barrier ability that you cast and once that’s depleted it increases the resource which could lead to an attack which is very unique'

Very unique, as in, 'DRK has had this for a whole expansion with TBN/the Dark Arts proc'. I don't know if Yoshi-P knows what happens with jobs outside of BLM

But the point remains: If Y-P thinks that the sense of exhilaration for healers should come from 'doing really good heal work', then they should have that reflected in ALL content. Healing should be harder in EX roulettes, so that we're forced to spam GCD heals to keep up. Make every EX roulette dungeon have a section like TEA's JWaves, make those dolls in Deadwalk hit for 20k per slam instead of 5k each

Y-P's insistence that 'we cannot do X because of a hypothetical that I just thought of' is very annoying. It's like when he was on about how 'we cant let BLU be a real job, because what if someone didn't learn all the actions?'. Yeh, and we still get the occasional level 90 CNJ who refuses to pick up their jobstone. Or 'we can't let BLU be a real job, because it'd be no fun if the BLU just used LVL-5 Death and oneshot the raid boss' Yeh, and look which raidbosses LVL5 Death works on... None of them! Because you can code the bosses to be immune to the effect! Wow! For crying out loud, if people were to say 'you have a damage action, why don't you use it' that's literally covered by the TOS and can be reported!

If you hamper your design options because 'what if someone is nasty in party chat', you won't have a game left. Someone is ALWAYS going to be weird in party chat, about whatever you let through. Removing all the damage buttons from WHM except Glare/Dia/Holy? Guess what, people ask 'hey can you use Holy it has a stun and that prevents the mobs doing damage at all for 4sec'. You will NEVER stop people from doing this, just let the TOS take care of those that do, that's what the clause is there for!

Oh and also, again, it's not 'cheese' or 'cheating' to use healer damage to clear content week 1. Your 'feelings' about how healers should play don't trump the simple maths of whether it's required or not (it is). If Y-P is right in that interview, and his stance applies to all content, he'd better have a word with the battle team to lower the DPS checks on Savage so it's actually clearable without healers dealing damage

[Kes13a]

If you hamper your design options because 'what if someone is nasty in party chat', you won't have a game left. Someone is ALWAYS going to be weird in party chat, about whatever you let through. Removing all the damage buttons from WHM except Glare/Dia/Holy? Guess what, people ask 'hey can you use Holy it has a stun and that prevents the mobs doing damage at all for 4sec'. You will NEVER stop people from doing this, just let the TOS take care of those that do, that's what the clause is there for!

I dont mind using Holy.. except... to be most useful, it needs to be in the center of the mobs and it centers on the cardboard kitten ... me. and if the tank isnt using mitigations.. then I am too busy keeping the tank alive to worry about stunning anything. because f the tank goes down, guess who is chewed on next... yours truly. and if the tank dies, then I die.. its going to be my fault for.. not healing the tank... *shrugs* its always a calculation of how fast I can get it off and keep the tank up in some situations

[ZephyrMenodora]

I dont mind using Holy.. except... to be most useful, it needs to be in the center of the mobs and it centers on the cardboard kitten ... me. and if the tank isnt using mitigations.. then I am too busy keeping the tank alive to worry about stunning anything. because f the tank goes down, guess who is chewed on next... yours truly. and if the tank dies, then I die.. its going to be my fault for.. not healing the tank... *shrugs* its always a calculation of how fast I can get it off and keep the tank up in some situations

Swiftcast-Holy is very useful here. Will save more damage on those "I don't mit" tanks you get than a cure 2.

Since people are bringing up that Yoshi P quote again, here's another contradictory thing for you:

If doing damage as a healer is not required at all, why was the damage kit gutted to make doing damage more accessible?

Makes you think.

There is no contradiction here. A healer's DPS not being needed doesn't contradict with his comment on downtime and healers having time to dps.

I think the point is they want healer damage simple, because that way they can focus on health bars (heaven forbid they also have status effects more regularly too - maybe we will with the Esuna questline), mechanics, and not also be looking for RNG procs or complicated rotations a DPS has. This would probably result in too many average players just completely failing at their actual purpose - healing.

if healers are only meant to heal why do healers have dps buttons at all? I am confused by the dev's logic

He didn't say they were only meant to heal. He said their DPS isn't needed. Those are two different statements. Also Healers still need to be able to solo quest, and it's something to cast during downtime. It's not that confusing.

[CaptainLagbeard]

There is no contradiction here. A healer's DPS not being needed doesn't contradict with his comment on downtime and healers having time to dps.

I think the point is they want healer damage simple, because that way they can focus on health bars (heaven forbid they also have status effects more regularly too - maybe we will with the Esuna questline), mechanics, and not also be looking for RNG procs or complicated rotations a DPS has. This would probably result in too many average players just completely failing at their actual purpose - healing.

Personally, I find the lack of gameplay the biggest distraction as a Healer. It's very easy to stop paying attention to the game as you just mash one button and you might not notice the DPS standing in fire.