#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Kes13a]

100% free to call it out and offer suggestions no one is saying that you should not voice your concerns. I think what people that are confused by the strike are really saying at least what I am saying is. The changes have to make sense within the current frame work and vision they have shown. For whatever reason they don't want to give healers more DPS buttons or some sort of combo action. They took away tools which I also do not agree with.

For example I would love for aggro to go back to being a group effort but I know that goes against the vision of SE and will never happen, just like I also wish we got old SMN back or a dot style caster added. It seems they want to move away from that play style. Hell, I miss TP and the funny memes with AST haste cards.

SE clearly has a vision one I do not agree with and clearly many others do not, voicing our concerns is one thing but another thing we do have to consider is that like it or not many people do see to enjoy the current direction. Like I get the healer strike is a thing but personally have not seen much of a difference in numbers but we will have to wait till later to see. Same with tanks I miss old aggro management but for the most part it seems many are fine with the new system.

End of the day it is possible the game may no longer be for certain people or roles are not meant for certain players.

their vision needs to be shared with the rest of the class. I for one, would love to know if they intend for healers to have a future or grind it out under Yoshi P's sneaker soles.

[Ramiee]

All "tab target" means is that it can only played with a keyboard and mouse. Nothing else. FFXIV can be played with a controller, and in order to do that, it has to reduce the amount of buttons you can press to about 8.

tab target is a community given name. It's any mmo with the target system that wow has. The name tab target just came from keyboard tab key. Playing pedantics is silly.

A lot of these "pretty games" from Asia have short life spans too because people over there are not as attached to physical or virtual items as westerners are. Western players get absolutely enraged when you take away the things they earned in a game.

Again I fail to see why this is relevant for discussion about healing and trinity balance

It's only needed to cheese the raid before everyone has geared up, they are not designed for the healer to be required to DPS. The developers are on record about this.

Fundamentally the problem is that they designed the core game mechanic around DPS, and haven't given healers any thought to how they should work since ARR. Look how samey-same the healers play. Look at how little damage healers and tanks actually do. They know that if they made all roles straight DPS in the first place, every fight would just be a "how fast can I burn this boss down" contest and players would become super toxic in group play because they would all believe they are in competition with each other.

The healer damage doesn't matter was said in stormblood, which was a lie then too. Healer damage has always been important in the early period of the raid cycle since ARR until now. They can say something is irrelevant but that's different from actually seeing it in game.

I will say you are right about the obsession with DPS bit really this is an MMO player problem. The Devs added small damage potencies to everything in ARR and HW including utility skills and the players decided they're core to the rotation not the Devs. I think the Devs in SHB fell into the trap of listening to parsers which is never a good idea.

How the developers want the game to work and how players believe it should work can be at odds, but right now it's mostly "at odds" with the western playerbase more than the Japanese playerbase, and that's because they want the roles to be exactly what they are supposed to be and not "Every role to be the same as a DPS".

And they will remain at odds. Not everyone will agree, western players prefer more open job design while Japanese want more role locked design. Western MMO players hate healbot gameplay, JP doesn't, it's as simple as that, they won't ever agree on this.

[Bobby66]

their vision needs to be shared with the rest of the class. I for one, would love to know if they intend for healers to have a future or grind it out under Yoshi P's sneaker soles.

Would be nice to know, yes. Do I personally think they will ever come out and say it outright? Not really, but that is also part of the reason why I play this game in bursts I do not stay subbed like I do for WoW. Game just does not have enough to keep me subbed long term.

Edit: All that being said I did have a lot of fun healing the new raid with AST and I am looking forward to savage but that could also be I have not played the game in over 6 months so I am not as burnt out as others.

[Magikazam]

All "tab target" means is that it can only played with a keyboard and mouse. Nothing else. FFXIV can be played with a controller, and in order to do that, it has to reduce the amount of buttons you can press to about 8.

No, tab target mean your mmo combat is based around selecting a target to use your move. FFXIV and WoW have you select a target when using single target skill. Meanwhile a non tab target mmo like BDO let you spam you attack anywhere, any time. It has nothing to do with keyboard or controller.

I didn't say that made them bad. WoW looks 20 years old because IT IS 20 years old. There is no amount of lipstick you can paint on it that will not make it feel 20 years old.

False, Just play WoW retail then jump on WoW classic and trust me, only one of them feel like a 20 years old game. Just like Dawntrail don't feel or play at all like ARR/HW Era FFXIV.

It's only needed to cheese the raid before everyone has geared up, they are not designed for the healer to be required to DPS.

It not ''cheese'' your party just can't perfom enough dps to past enrage if healer don't contribute, unless people are overgeared. They don't even need to output tons of dps but it is required, unless we assume dev are bad at balancing the content at minimum required gear level since the past few xpac (unlikely).

Fundamentally the problem is that they designed the core game mechanic around DPS, and haven't given healers any thought to how they should work since ARR.

Agains false, Healer weren't alway healbot and used to have more complex dps ability in mind, just similar to how modern tank got both mitigation and an actual dps rotation and damage OGCD.

Less people forget that Final Fantasy has an identity, and trying to change that identity is just not going to happen. The White Mage is always going to be a healer first, and is lucky to even have DPS actions since it doesn't in other games since mechanically it should only be able to damage undead.

Ever heard of Holy? it a staple spell for White mage even back in FF1, where it was, the second strongest damaging spell in the game. How about all the wind damage spell they get in FF3? That also leaving all their debuff spell like toad or mini. While it true White mage is a healer foremost, it is far from lacking any offensive ability in it identity, like Do you know how much Holy is influencial in term of JRPG?

I also don't see you complain about DRK lacking their iconic self damaging skills or Warrior having access to OP gears and several type of weapons.

[ForsakenRoe]

It's only needed to cheese the raid before everyone has geared up, they are not designed for the healer to be required to DPS. The developers are on record about this.

People have done maths and shown that you'd need a team of high-parsing (eg 90+) players, all with the BIS for the tier (including the weapon, which requires killing the boss in the first place), to beat the 4th fights on some raid tiers without healers dealing any damage. It's mathematically impossible to clear an ultimate without healers contributing damage.

The idea that we're 'cheesing' fights by having healers deal damage is laughable. If you want to stick to the 'healers should only heal' mantra that's been dead and buried for years, you're more than welcome to. In content that doesn't demand healers deal damage, such as EX roulettes or Maps or whatever, you can do whatever floats your boat. The moment you set foot in content that has a Stone Sky Sea challenge attached (which requires that you, a healer, do damage to beat), then the expectation is that you deal damage to help beat the content.

As for 'the devs said so', yes, like 7 years ago. Times change. Additionally, they've said a lot of dumb stuff in interviews that can be easily disproven (eg, that time Yoshi-P said SCHs were forcing WHMs to do all the healing, charts from the time showed the two were equal. If it were today, because mit now counts as HPS, SCH would be miles ahead.)

[KisaiTenshi]

People have done maths and shown that you'd need a team of..

Stopping you there. That is cheating and cheesing.

It's the never ending argument on this forum between people who want to play the game the way it was intended, and the people who play the cat and mouse game of "am I going to get caught cheating the new raid."
https://www.polygon.com/23581166/fin...-party-plug-in

This has happened every single time. If you got a bunch of people who want to cheese the fight by only permissible means, that is one thing. But the minute you need a third party tool, you're no longer playing the game as it was intended and defying the wishes of the developers.

If you want to play a healer. You are only required to heal. Nobody anything says is correct no matter how much they insist. That sure is a boring way to play, but you're not obligated to play by any nonsense meta that has never been true.

[Kes13a]

Would be nice to know, yes. Do I personally think they will ever come out and say it outright? Not really, but that is also part of the reason why I play this game in bursts I do not stay subbed like I do for WoW. Game just does not have enough to keep me subbed long term.

Edit: All that being said I did have a lot of fun healing the new raid with AST and I am looking forward to savage but that could also be I have not played the game in over 6 months so I am not as burnt out as others.

pretty sad that WoW made a statement aboutt tanks and healers before SE even acknowledges the issue. and that they made a statement about it. SE lost a big opportunity there.

[Dhregin]

Stopping you there. That is cheating and cheesing.

It's the never ending argument on this forum between people who want to play the game the way it was intended, and the people who play the cat and mouse game of "am I going to get caught cheating the new raid."
https://www.polygon.com/23581166/fin...-party-plug-in

This has happened every single time. If you got a bunch of people who want to cheese the fight by only permissible means, that is one thing. But the minute you need a third party tool, you're no longer playing the game as it was intended and defying the wishes of the developers.

If you want to play a healer. You are only required to heal. Nobody anything says is correct no matter how much they insist. That sure is a boring way to play, but you're not obligated to play by any nonsense meta that has never been true.

I'm going to do my best not to appear rude here, but I think your moral/emotional arguement is being pushed up agains ForsakenRoe's Logical arguement. Its not a "meta" requirement, they're referencing, its a DPS-CHECK requirement.

The DPS Checks in this game are mostly lenient where, yes, a Healer could succeeed without doing DPS - but at the Savage level (on Content & no echo) and at the Ultimate Level (at any time), you can't meet the DPS check before Enrage if Healers are just healing. They are correct in that it is mathmatically impossible to achieve without each member of the group contributing damage - including healers. You can call it cheating to know that it is mathmaticallly impossible (or close to it, depending on the case), but that is generally well-accepted knowledge by the average player who actively participates in the raiding content this game offers - even those who swear off of all add-ons.

Your lack of experience in the game is why you are championing the cause of Healers only need to heal. The Developers shifted the DPS requirements of content to require support players to also focus on damage back prior to Heavensward (Time line might be a little wrong, its been 10 years so cut me some slack), because of Player Demand - and it has been that way ever since. This bred the well known meme, healers are Green DPS. Tanks are Blue DPS.

Lets not get uppity and big-ego'd because we disagree emotionally with something. Base your rebuttals on something more substantial than "This is my belief" for a more constructive and objective-based discussion.

Othewise, you're just shouting into the void for no discernable reason other than to be upset with other people... and that's just obnoxious I'm sure you agree! I've done it plenty of times. I'm a very obnoxious person.

Anyway, o7

[Kes13a]

If you want to play a healer. You are only required to heal. Nobody anything says is correct no matter how much they insist. That sure is a boring way to play, but you're not obligated to play by any nonsense meta that has never been true.

sure, thats all well and good, and tanks should only tank and not heal others and dps should only dps and not heal others... and then Dawntrail comes along and you can tank AND dps and aoe heal

I would love it if there was just healing that healers had to do, but... there isnt. and after the shine comes off dawntrail, the actual healing goes down and down even in normal content unless you are running with people that simply are bad at playing.

so. you might want to play the same game as the rest of us since you have been here so long. if there is nothing to heal, what are you going to do? your nails while waiting? no, you'll 2111 like the rest of us and.. big shocker.. ITS NOT CHEESE, or CHEATING... its trying to stay awake.

[Chajii]

Yoshi-P have said on stream that healers should deal damage when no heal is needed because they don't want other roles see healers just standing around not contributing during those periods.