#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Kes13a]

Thing about that is, they could have reduced the feeling of 'Healer dies? We're all boned' in many ways, not just 'make Healer have one damage button to spam for 80%+ of their GCDs' and/or 'make Healer have like 15 different healing OGCD tools, to further reduce how much they need to GCD heal (since that has a cast time, which could cause the Healer to be late with the healing)'.

Simple solution: Phoenix Downs can now be used in combat with a 5s cast time, you can carry up to 999 in a stack (instead of being limited to 1), and you can buy them from any item vendor (same as the trash NQ potions, echo drops etc) for some nominal price (eg 100gil each). Bang, now anyone can raise the healer should they die (even melee/physranged/tanks), RDM/SMN's raise is still valuable as it has range (Phoenix Down has a very short range), and it has less punishment to their damage to use it compared to a Phoenix Down (5s for PD, 2.5s recast for Swiftcasting the raise spell), and RDM still retains its ability to machine-gun out multiple resses back to back.

or, it can be used to get rid of the healer role all together

[Kozmakis]

Thing about that is, they could have reduced the feeling of 'Healer dies? We're all boned' in many ways, not just 'make Healer have one damage button to spam for 80%+ of their GCDs' and/or 'make Healer have like 15 different healing OGCD tools, to further reduce how much they need to GCD heal (since that has a cast time, which could cause the Healer to be late with the healing)'.

Simple solution: Phoenix Downs can now be used in combat with a 5s cast time, you can carry up to 999 in a stack (instead of being limited to 1), and you can buy them from any item vendor (same as the trash NQ potions, echo drops etc) for some nominal price (eg 100gil each). Bang, now anyone can raise the healer should they die (even melee/physranged/tanks), RDM/SMN's raise is still valuable as it has range (Phoenix Down has a very short range), and it has less punishment to their damage to use it compared to a Phoenix Down (5s for PD, 2.5s recast for Swiftcasting the raise spell), and RDM still retains its ability to machine-gun out multiple resses back to back.

A good thought, but it sounds like a short-term solution... what happens when people forget to buy them or they run out of gil? I think a more permanent solution is to grant everyone a resurrection spell, or remove resurrections during combat altogether, reduce the number of oneshot mechanics (substitute them with DOTs or some other debuffs?) and encourage wiping as a learning mechanism. Of course, the latter is almost impossible to happen, nobody will redo all dungeon, trial, and raid fights since ARR...

[Bobby66]

The dot mechanic instead of vuln is cool. How SE has gone about it is not perfect but for whatever reason this js the design choice they went with. I do think the likely solution and feedback has to fall in simular scope fo the current design philosophy.

Which is hard cause SE is all over the place. Part of it seems they are are deathly afraid to repeat HW. I would arfue stormblood was the perfect balance, but for whatever reason they felt that was too much also.

That being said I greatly enjoyed the new raids and i am looking forward to savage. Oddly enough SE have shown they made make interesting damage focused healers sage in PvP is a lot of fun. Those are more support roles and maybe that is what SE needs to embrace. Go the support but not full healer route but that also goes against what they appear to want with current heals.

Ast is a lot of fun for me personally now.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Pretty common in the Crystal DC, but healer quality has really dropped. This was for a farm party.
[IMG]

Me seeing the pic:

[IDontPetLalas]

"Tab Target" is not a genre.

*snip*
Please look at the marketing and screenshots for Blade and Soul. Now look at the marketing for Aion. Both of these are NCSoft. Both of these games adhere to class-lock. BDO also does class lock.
*snip*

Basically what I'm saying here is a lot of these Japanese and Korean games tend to market on the character designs, and survive or fail based on how much players want to play that character/race/class. That character/race/class lockin is a feature to make players have to start over and pump their P2W monies if they want to play that new character. Meanwhile FFXIV is over here and going "Hey you can play all the jobs on one character! Look at how much less time you have to commit!"

*snip*

Asian players tend to care more about how the game looks (again , look at how much the JP side cares about animations) over functionality. Players can complain all they want about Healers being a 1-button DPS in all the MSQ content, but it's never going to become more like a DPS because the JP side doesn't want it to be a DPS. Play DPS if you want DPS functionality and leave the healer role alone.

The easiest rip-off-the-bandaid approach Square Enix can take is to just disable all the DPS buttons in Trial and Raid content on the healer to get the point across that the healer should be only healing in 8-player content. Then in turn disable the self-healing buttons on all the DPS and the Tank. Healing should be amplified on the Tank if they are using their mitigations correctly. But players don't want to play content differently. They want to treat all content like a DPS, because SE keeps making the encounter design that way where half the boss fight is just dodging optional damage rather than bleeding.

I've played a number of games that you've listed, including both Western and Korean MMOs. Of the games in that list, played Aion since closed beta (so 2009) until 2021, as well as Blade and Soul for several years. There were additional games, however those were the ones that I had the most experience, and based upon those games I while I would definitely agree that appearance was extremely important in numerous aspects ranging from the character customization to the game backgrounds- the attention paid to job design was in no way overlooked. I don't agree with the statement that functionality wasn't considered important, as cosmetic updates weren't the sole or primary focus of content updates at all.

To be honest, your "band-aid" approach doesn't make any sense at all to me. It's a mixture of treating healers like NPCs who can't have any agency, and punishing other jobs because of poor encounter design?

[Ramiee]

"Tab Target" is not a genre.

Yeah it is, Its a common community labelled genre.
WOW, FFXIV, LOTR Online, GW2 and Runescape 3 are all labelled as tab target MMOs. This is an extremely common term I am shocked you have never come a cross it.

Then go back to Western MMORPG's and what do we have...
1. Minecraft (modded)
2. WoW
3. SWTOR
4. Star Trek Online
5. ESO
6. Fallout76

Of these maybe SWTOR isn't ugly.

Ok? This is opinion based. There is no objective correct opinions. I like how WOW looks and don't like how BDO looks. WTF is this even about? How is this relevant to healer gameplay?

Basically what I'm saying here is a lot of these Japanese and Korean games tend to market on the character designs.
--Meanwhile FFXIV is over here and going "Hey you can play all the jobs on one character! Look at how much less time you have to commit!"

Asian players tend to care more about how the game looks (again , look at how much the JP side cares about animations) over functionality. Players can complain all they want about Healers being a 1-button DPS in all the MSQ content.

Okay? I am not a JP player I disagree fundementally with their opinions if they all have this exact same opinion. Even if the game is focused on JP players more, they have a western forums and have listened to it before. Im sure that the french and german forums also have disagreements with our ideas too. I am not going to change my opinions just because of JP priority.

The easiest rip-off-the-bandaid approach Square Enix can take is to just disable all the DPS buttons in Trial and Raid content on the healer. --disable the self-healing buttons on all the DPS and the Tank. Healing should be amplified on the Tank if they are using their mitigations correctly. But players don't want to play content differently. They want to treat all content like a DPS, because SE keeps making the encounter design that way where half the boss fight is just dodging optional damage rather than bleeding.

Yeah but healer damage is needed to pass during the first few months, look at p8s. Heal bot gameplay will kill the role completely, for the entirety of the early 2000s healers in the popular MMOs were designed around only healing during raids and this in turn led to the role being INCREDIBLY unpopular.
The second WOW came out with cata which had added damage optimisation for healers the role became far more popular, this is what ARR was based on btw. So the main problem with trying to turn healers into healbots is that FFXIV was built from the ground up with healers dealing damage in mind.
Unless they decide to completely rework the core game and rebalance literally everything the easiest way to fix this problem will always be giving healers more interesting dps.

[IDontPetLalas]

A good thought, but it sounds like a short-term solution... what happens when people forget to buy them or they run out of gil? I think a more permanent solution is to grant everyone a resurrection spell, or remove resurrections during combat altogether, reduce the number of oneshot mechanics (substitute them with DOTs or some other debuffs?) and encourage wiping as a learning mechanism. Of course, the latter is almost impossible to happen, nobody will redo all dungeon, trial, and raid fights since ARR...

I would rather look at why healers die. It's so easy to say "yeah, why have sh*tty healers that's why". Sure, there are probably some who just jump in from their summoner or boost, but there are probably multiple reasons ranging from inherently low defense, UI, skills (lack of a self-raise), etc.

[alfarini]

yall still at this? christ, what a shame.

[Kozmakis]

I would rather look at why healers die. It's so easy to say "yeah, why have sh*tty healers that's why". Sure, there are probably some who just jump in from their summoner or boost, but there are probably multiple reasons ranging from inherently low defense, UI, skills (lack of a self-raise), etc.

You are right, there are many ways to tackle the problem - more HP, more defence, self-raise etc. I am up for anything that would punish healers less than others for dying I personally prefer the lack of combat res, because it teaches people responsibility to not die while standing in fire. Right now, if you die as DPS and don't get ressed, the healer is considered a noob.. and tanks don't really die lol, but that's just me!

yall still at this? christ, what a shame.

Gotta do something, while waiting for the long DPS queues for dungeons, you know! And thanks for the free bump!

[LyraShu]

yall still at this? christ, what a shame.

*shrug* I mean, if you don't like it you can heal? I'm bored with the job so you are more then welcome to it!

But ya, Kozmakis that is a beautiful answer :3