#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[KisaiTenshi]

Yeah it is, Its a common community labelled genre.
WOW, FFXIV, LOTR Online, GW2 and Runescape 3 are all labelled as tab target MMOs. This is an extremely common term I am shocked you have never come a cross it.

All "tab target" means is that it can only played with a keyboard and mouse. Nothing else. FFXIV can be played with a controller, and in order to do that, it has to reduce the amount of buttons you can press to about 8.

Ok? This is opinion based. There is no objective correct opinions. I like how WOW looks and don't like how BDO looks. WTF is this even about? How is this relevant to healer gameplay?

I didn't say that made them bad. WoW looks 20 years old because IT IS 20 years old. There is no amount of lipstick you can paint on it that will not make it feel 20 years old.

A lot of these "pretty games" from Asia have short life spans too because people over there are not as attached to physical or virtual items as westerners are. Western players get absolutely enraged when you take away the things they earned in a game.

Yeah but healer damage is needed to pass during the first few months, look at p8s.

It's only needed to cheese the raid before everyone has geared up, they are not designed for the healer to be required to DPS. The developers are on record about this.

Fundamentally the problem is that they designed the core game mechanic around DPS, and haven't given healers any thought to how they should work since ARR. Look how samey-same the healers play. Look at how little damage healers and tanks actually do. They know that if they made all roles straight DPS in the first place, every fight would just be a "how fast can I burn this boss down" contest and players would become super toxic in group play because they would all believe they are in competition with each other.

How the developers want the game to work and how players believe it should work can be at odds, but right now it's mostly "at odds" with the western playerbase more than the Japanese playerbase, and that's because they want the roles to be exactly what they are supposed to be and not "Every role to be the same as a DPS".

Less people forget that Final Fantasy has an identity, and trying to change that identity is just not going to happen. The White Mage is always going to be a healer first, and is lucky to even have DPS actions since it doesn't in other games since mechanically it should only be able to damage undead.

[Wildheaven182]

A lot of these "pretty games" from Asia have short life spans too because people over there are not as attached to physical or virtual items as westerners are. Western players get absolutely enraged when you take away the things they earned in a game.

I would like to introduce you to japanese idol culture and hikikomori video game no life shut ins. There's a reason they can't allow any of the scions to have romance dialogue with players. Because Japanese players will go rabid over who is the "real" partner to their favorite npc. Idol culture is actually the theme of the tournament raid series.
But it is true that they are also generally much less attached to the secular, being largely shinto. Whereas atheism is big in the west which is entirely secular and believes exclusively in the secular, so there is nothing else to existence than one's physical possessions.

[Magikazam]

All "tab target" means is that it can only played with a keyboard and mouse. Nothing else. FFXIV can be played with a controller, and in order to do that, it has to reduce the amount of buttons you can press to about 8.

No, tab target mean your mmo combat is based around selecting a target to use your move. FFXIV and WoW have you select a target when using single target skill. Meanwhile a non tab target mmo like BDO let you spam you attack anywhere, any time. It has nothing to do with keyboard or controller.

I didn't say that made them bad. WoW looks 20 years old because IT IS 20 years old. There is no amount of lipstick you can paint on it that will not make it feel 20 years old.

False, Just play WoW retail then jump on WoW classic and trust me, only one of them feel like a 20 years old game. Just like Dawntrail don't feel or play at all like ARR/HW Era FFXIV.

It's only needed to cheese the raid before everyone has geared up, they are not designed for the healer to be required to DPS.

It not ''cheese'' your party just can't perfom enough dps to past enrage if healer don't contribute, unless people are overgeared. They don't even need to output tons of dps but it is required, unless we assume dev are bad at balancing the content at minimum required gear level since the past few xpac (unlikely).

Fundamentally the problem is that they designed the core game mechanic around DPS, and haven't given healers any thought to how they should work since ARR.

Agains false, Healer weren't alway healbot and used to have more complex dps ability in mind, just similar to how modern tank got both mitigation and an actual dps rotation and damage OGCD.

Less people forget that Final Fantasy has an identity, and trying to change that identity is just not going to happen. The White Mage is always going to be a healer first, and is lucky to even have DPS actions since it doesn't in other games since mechanically it should only be able to damage undead.

Ever heard of Holy? it a staple spell for White mage even back in FF1, where it was, the second strongest damaging spell in the game. How about all the wind damage spell they get in FF3? That also leaving all their debuff spell like toad or mini. While it true White mage is a healer foremost, it is far from lacking any offensive ability in it identity, like Do you know how much Holy is influencial in term of JRPG?

I also don't see you complain about DRK lacking their iconic self damaging skills or Warrior having access to OP gears and several type of weapons.

[ForsakenRoe]

It's only needed to cheese the raid before everyone has geared up, they are not designed for the healer to be required to DPS. The developers are on record about this.

People have done maths and shown that you'd need a team of high-parsing (eg 90+) players, all with the BIS for the tier (including the weapon, which requires killing the boss in the first place), to beat the 4th fights on some raid tiers without healers dealing any damage. It's mathematically impossible to clear an ultimate without healers contributing damage.

The idea that we're 'cheesing' fights by having healers deal damage is laughable. If you want to stick to the 'healers should only heal' mantra that's been dead and buried for years, you're more than welcome to. In content that doesn't demand healers deal damage, such as EX roulettes or Maps or whatever, you can do whatever floats your boat. The moment you set foot in content that has a Stone Sky Sea challenge attached (which requires that you, a healer, do damage to beat), then the expectation is that you deal damage to help beat the content.

As for 'the devs said so', yes, like 7 years ago. Times change. Additionally, they've said a lot of dumb stuff in interviews that can be easily disproven (eg, that time Yoshi-P said SCHs were forcing WHMs to do all the healing, charts from the time showed the two were equal. If it were today, because mit now counts as HPS, SCH would be miles ahead.)

[KisaiTenshi]

People have done maths and shown that you'd need a team of..

Stopping you there. That is cheating and cheesing.

It's the never ending argument on this forum between people who want to play the game the way it was intended, and the people who play the cat and mouse game of "am I going to get caught cheating the new raid."
https://www.polygon.com/23581166/fin...-party-plug-in

This has happened every single time. If you got a bunch of people who want to cheese the fight by only permissible means, that is one thing. But the minute you need a third party tool, you're no longer playing the game as it was intended and defying the wishes of the developers.

If you want to play a healer. You are only required to heal. Nobody anything says is correct no matter how much they insist. That sure is a boring way to play, but you're not obligated to play by any nonsense meta that has never been true.

[Dhregin]

Stopping you there. That is cheating and cheesing.

It's the never ending argument on this forum between people who want to play the game the way it was intended, and the people who play the cat and mouse game of "am I going to get caught cheating the new raid."
https://www.polygon.com/23581166/fin...-party-plug-in

This has happened every single time. If you got a bunch of people who want to cheese the fight by only permissible means, that is one thing. But the minute you need a third party tool, you're no longer playing the game as it was intended and defying the wishes of the developers.

If you want to play a healer. You are only required to heal. Nobody anything says is correct no matter how much they insist. That sure is a boring way to play, but you're not obligated to play by any nonsense meta that has never been true.

I'm going to do my best not to appear rude here, but I think your moral/emotional arguement is being pushed up agains ForsakenRoe's Logical arguement. Its not a "meta" requirement, they're referencing, its a DPS-CHECK requirement.

The DPS Checks in this game are mostly lenient where, yes, a Healer could succeeed without doing DPS - but at the Savage level (on Content & no echo) and at the Ultimate Level (at any time), you can't meet the DPS check before Enrage if Healers are just healing. They are correct in that it is mathmatically impossible to achieve without each member of the group contributing damage - including healers. You can call it cheating to know that it is mathmaticallly impossible (or close to it, depending on the case), but that is generally well-accepted knowledge by the average player who actively participates in the raiding content this game offers - even those who swear off of all add-ons.

Your lack of experience in the game is why you are championing the cause of Healers only need to heal. The Developers shifted the DPS requirements of content to require support players to also focus on damage back prior to Heavensward (Time line might be a little wrong, its been 10 years so cut me some slack), because of Player Demand - and it has been that way ever since. This bred the well known meme, healers are Green DPS. Tanks are Blue DPS.

Lets not get uppity and big-ego'd because we disagree emotionally with something. Base your rebuttals on something more substantial than "This is my belief" for a more constructive and objective-based discussion.

Othewise, you're just shouting into the void for no discernable reason other than to be upset with other people... and that's just obnoxious I'm sure you agree! I've done it plenty of times. I'm a very obnoxious person.

Anyway, o7

[Somnolence]

Its not a "meta" requirement, they're referencing, its a DPS-CHECK requirement.

Don't tell him that devs even made so you can verify DPS-CHECK requirements for such content on Stone, Sky, Sea dummies for healer roles as well

[Galvuu]

Don't tell him that devs even made so you can verify DPS-CHECK requirements for such content on Stone, Sky, Sea dummies for healer roles as well

That person queuing into SSS as a healer, proceeding to stare down the dummy, do 0 dps, shout "cheating" as the Duty Failed message appears would make for top tier content, tbh.

[KisaiTenshi]

Your lack of experience in the game is why you are championing the cause of Healers only need to heal.

I come from 1.0 thanks. I've seen the arguments, and I've seen how the content has never changed to REQUIRE DPS from the healer. Between the developers confirming that, and poorly skilled players complaining about DPS numbers for purely egotistical reasons, not once has anyone shown where a piece of content in the game was actually designed as not completable by playing it as designed.

Media Tour 2021:

Mrhappy1227: Healers in Final Fantasy XIV often discuss how often they are casting DPS spells despite being healers. Often nicknaming jobs like White Mage a “Glare Mage” as an example. The Media Tour build has some new healing skills that also have damage components to them. Has the team taken any feedback from the players on improving interactivity with the healers? Whether that be more interesting DPS skills or more prominent healing requirements.

ヒーラーに関してなんですけれども、XIVの…ガチ勢じゃないですけれどもそういったヒーラーをプレイしている人たちの中で、空いた時間に攻撃アビリティをキャストする人たちがいるので、特に白魔に関しては「グレアメイジ」と呼んでいる人たちがいたりします。で、今回のメディアツアーの仕様をさせていただいた際に、もちろん新しいヒールスキルも加えているのですけれども、攻撃する様子の含まれているようなヒールもあったりして、なかなか興味深かったです。で、今後のプレイヤーのヒーラーとしてのインターアクティヴァティ、例えば攻撃系の魔法に関して、より幅を広げるのか、それともヒーラーに特化したヒール関連のアビリティを今後強化していくなどの、今後のイメージというか、そういうお考えがあれば教えてください。

Yoshida: So I totally understand that those healers that have a very high player skill level and they’ve really mastered their jobs go into these different raids or battles and when they do have some downtime between their heals they do cast more offensive spells. Some of them desire to have more technical aspects of it so they are more active and I totally understand that sentiment. But of course the basis of a healer is to heal so I think the development team and I have this thinking of getting that sense of exhilaration from doing really good heal work.

That being said I don’t think we would do any sort of dramatic addition of offensive skills moving forward. By having these offensive abilities some players, like new healers, might feel pressured like “oh do I have to have good DPS while I’m healing?” or some players might be aggressive like “oh hey you have an offensive skill in your kit, why don’t you use it?” and I don’t think that’s optimal either.

But of course we do have the new job, Sage, which will allow for this unique gameplay where if you land an attack it heals at the same time. Or if there’s like a particular barrier ability that you cast and once that’s depleted it increases the resource which could lead to an attack which is very unique. I think players would be interested in trying that out for sure.
ヒーラーでかつレイドをやっててプレイヤースキル高い人ほど、やっぱり空いた時間に攻撃をしたい。そうなってくるともっと攻撃にテクニカル生かしたい、まあ、なる気持ちはわかる。ただどちらかと言うとベースはヒーラーなので、やっぱりコンテンツ側の攻撃を激しくして、まず上手いヒールワークをすることで楽しめるっていうようにしていきたいのはベースにあります、僕らとしては。

だからこれ以上激的にヒーラーに攻撃手段とか攻撃のローテーションを加えるみたいなことは多分やらないと思います。それがあることによって新しくヒーラーを始めた人とかニュービーとかが「ヒーラーなのに攻撃しなきゃいけない」って思ってしまうのが、あと他人から要求される「攻撃しろよ」って「そのスキルが用意されてから攻撃しろ」ってことなんだからってなっちゃうのはあんまり良くはないかなと思ってます、正直。

ただ、そうは言っても今回「賢者」っていう新しいバリアヒーラーは攻撃すると回復が走ったり、張ったバリアが消滅すると攻撃リソースを得てさらに攻撃してみたいの形で、ちょっと面白いジョブになってると思うので、そういった方はぜひ賢者を一度触っていただけると嬉しいかなと思います。

[Shurrikhan]

I come from 1.0 thanks. I've seen the arguments, and I've seen how the content has never changed to REQUIRE DPS from the healer. Between the developers confirming that, and poorly skilled players complaining about DPS numbers for purely egotistical reasons, not once has anyone shown where a piece of content in the game was actually designed as not completable by playing it as designed.

When you ignore all evidence given, as recently even as within the past few pages, of the curvature of the Earth content that requires dps from healers, then sure enough, in effect no one has shown a single piece of content in the game designed to require dps from the healers.

When you don't, however, that evidence remains. Such as even in literal MSQ solo scenarios. Or multiple Savage fights. Or, indirectly, the ToA, for which the developers have confirmed that refusal to deal damage in one's spare time is a kickable offense under "Lethargic play".

Yet, unskilled yet highly defensive players prefer to tout an almost immediately disproven errant quote from the first few years of the game in an attempt to defend for themselves said lethargic play contrary to the actual ToA.

Also: Healers dealt damage in their spare time even in 1.0.