Gunbreaker gameplay hope and expectations

[Phoenicia]

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Good post.

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No, we don't compare individual moves and ignore mechanics tied to them.

That is like saying SAM is the highest DPS in the game because Midare can have 1050 potency. Yet it is overshadowed by BLM and the gap is HUGE and MNK has nothing that comes close to high potency yet it deals similar DPS to SAM.

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The real problem here is people compare things in vacuum or inside a bubble. And there is apparent strong bias.

You can't. Fell Cleave does NOT follow all the same rules as Blood Spiller or Holy Spirit or Goring or w/e.

If I want to, I can go into Hallowed Ground and scream "OP, PLD is only tank with 100% immunity!" But we all know how ignorant that really is.

You need to compare how tool kits work together. Hallowed can only be used once or twice in a fight to tip its power down but it is balanced with having good auto-attack mitigation thanks to block, sheltron and other things in the PLD's kit. Whereas WAR and DRK's weaker AA mitigation is increased by having some healing or having Holmgang/LD free up some cooldowns to be used for fluff.

Fell Cleave looks strong because IR boosts the one hardest hitting GCD and allows it to be spammed for free. But then the rest of WAR's GCDs are really unimpressive. Non of them do over 300 potency. WAR has only 1 meaningful oGCD that is slightly "buffed" Spirits Within at the cost of 20 gauge while the other is free.

PLD on the other hand has Holy Spirit to act as a "Fell Cleave" with Requiescat being the "IR" of PLD. Heck, early Stormblood Holy Spirit "WAS" creeping the 35% of PLD's DPS with it having 435 potency. But since then it got 3 nerfs. PLD also boosts over half of its physical GCDs and Circle of Scorns, half its Spirits Within and, dependent on opener of choice, all its Requiscats by 25% using Fight or Flight. PLD autos hit "twice".

DRK converts every 2400 of its MP to 140 potency. CnS is a wooping 450. DRK has numerous GCDs that are 300~440 and BS is 400~540. All those numbers are boosted by 20%!

You don't go and account for Slashing only for WAR. Slashing is base-lined because PLD and DRK can access it by having WAR, NIN or SAM. With WAR and NIN so popular in Meta and there are more SAMs than NIN and WAR combined, it's hard not to have "slashing".

This is how you compare toolkits. It's not like Fell Cleave hits so much harder than the other tanks and yet manages to be only 20% of its total DPS because it's DPS is so strong. The truth is the rest of WAR's DPS is so low that Fell Cleave is actually 40% of its DPS. Let's look at the best parses of a WAR, a DRK and a PLD on Final Omega. Yes those are padded, but they are still playing near optimally and the fight has minimal downtime (no Fennek Strat of course) and the ratios should still be the same.

WAR:


PLD:


DRK:


See the diffence in contribution? PLD gets its damage from so many sources that there is not 1 move that draws attention. DRK is so much of its DPS coming from Souleater, Auto-attack, Syphon Strike and Dark Arts. But when you come to WAR you see that almost half its damage comes from Fell Cleave. These are parses with a 6510 DRK, 6270 WAR and 6194 PLD. (Buff PLD I Guess?)

Of course Fell Cleave looks over damn impressive. But it's the gem in the pile of trash.

In the end it is completely wrong and misleading to look at 1 move and go "This class OP because 1 move". Unless it's Ninja because &@#$ Trick Attack lol.

-shield oath/grit outside of GCD and remove complety the mp cost, its not fair they cost more for doing less that defiance right?
-divine veil healing requeriment removed, add a aoe shield to DRK bcs its not fair a job that offer similar dps that the other 2 have such low relevant utiliry in combat.
-slaishing for everyone!!! since better dont remove it from WAR or some ppl will rage about that nerf
-clemency oGCD and add a 1200 potency heal to DRK, ah and remove the grit requeriment of souleater healing
-increase plunge to 20 yalms and make it dps neutral
-what more what more oh yes, add 5 seconds more to shadow wall and sentinel so all of then are 15 seconds duration, meaby a counter attack too
-my favourite lets just reduce the coldown of living dead and hallowed so all tanks are able to land 3-4 uses of those skills like WAR in combat, lets avoid favoritism.
-and no less adds to grit and shield oath some kind of extra mitigation to equal WAR defensive power house and i almost forgot to buff PLD rage of halone.
-and a proper burst window for everyone since WAR its so good with sutained damage too.

First you need to understand I am NOT biased. WAR is my LEAST favorite tank to play. But I am not under any delusions that WAR is "taking my spot" and "stepping on my toes". I have an easy time joining parties as ANY tank. As a matter of fact, only Armored tank mount I have is the dark panther. Go figure.

- ShO and Grit can't get off GCD unless you make Defiance HEAL 25% of current HP upon entry. You can't "balance" by flipping the scales. You have to balance the scales.

- You can take Shake it Off. Delete it or put on Gunbreaker. Take Veil too. I hate that sh*t. Shields are too overrated. Unless your healers are utter garbage, you won't really need them. They do not save GCDs (healers end up healing anyways). Holy sh*t dude, read. what. we. post.

- Slashing is a bad mechanic. It exists just to exist. It doesn't add anything to the game other than "feelsbadman, half the classes that need it don't apply it". It should be dropped from the game along with piercing and blunt. Not added to every one. That's "buff bloat".

- Really? oGCD clemency? What are you on? Because I want some of that.
Why would you want that? So you want to have to stick it on a 1 min CD? You can't have oGCD, but have no CD and heal 50% more than WAR's Equilibrium (It heals 50% more than equilibrium). Again, can't "balance" the scale by just tipping it the opposite way. DRK needs a bit more self-healing since it is the only tank with a "heal me or I die" mechanic that it can't save itself from.

- No, you're saying WAR does more DPS. Why do you want to lose 200 potency from Plunge? Idm/care about the range.

- Vengeance, Shadow Wall and Sentinel are fine as they are. They are "different" enough. I don't want Rampart v2.0. No tank is dying because their buff is not 15 seconds. WAR's mitigation isn't strong because of Vengeance. Play WAR and you'll understand. Or just read what we posted. Just stop with the "his is bigger than mine, mom, I wanna grow mine like his."

- Ehm, so you want a move that lasts 6 seconds, doesn't "really" reduce damage, require a target, roots you in place, to have the same cooldown as 100% immnuty? Hallowed Ground is clearly so bad it doesn't deserve its 7 minute CD. Whatever you're on mate, I want some too. It looks really fun. lol

- PLD and DRK already have "extra mitigation" called Sheltron and TBN that's not even tied to ShO and Grit, but on top of those they have 4% more effective HPS from spells, and 25% from ability based heals. They don't need stance based added moves.

- WAR good with sustained damage? Good joke mate. I have another good one! 2 monkeys walk in a bar... oh wait...

Honestly, this is the last time I will read anything you post in this thread from now on and will just jump over it. I mean no offence and you are entitled to stick to your opinion, but it is clear that our discussion is not going any where as you are ignoring everything we say and just have some audio-clip on repeat.