Gunbreaker gameplay hope and expectations

[shao32]

there is no reason why WAR should be the jack of all trades, best on all of then either, it's not like WAR should be worse to others or something like that but most a call of WAR shouln't hold all this niches, parry, self healing, movility raw mitigation, shielding ect ect, and it's incomprehensible that the other tanks have the fault for don't being better and "you shouldn't complaing about my job", DRK have a pass bcs was excesibely gutted this expansion but gets better and can't be competitive to the other 2 bcs WAR get a lot of things this expansion some of then in middle of it ignoring DRK, shadowbringers can't have this problem again, with WAR being over the other 2 again, it should be equal and leave room to the other to have something to shine and don't overwhelm over everything the others have.

[Izsha]

there is no reason why WAR should be the jack of all trades, best on all of then either, it's not like you understand that WAR shoun't be worse to others or something like that but most a call of WAR shouln't hold all this niches, parry, self healing, movility raw mitigation, shielding ect ect, and it's incomprehensible that the other tanks have the fault for don't being better and "you shouldn't complaing about my job", DRK have a pass bcs was excesibely gutted this expansion but gets better and can't be competitive to the other 2 bcs WAR get a lot of things this expansion some of then in middle of it ignoring DRK, shadowbringers can't have this problem again, with WAR being over the other 2 again, it should be equal and leave room to the other to have something to shine and don't overwhelm over everything the others have.

Parry niche? Are you serious? Are we just making up niches to pretend that the world is ended?

zomg! Drk has total lock down on the self shielding niche, the fastest attacking niche, the ground aoe niche, the magic defense niche, highest enmity action niche, ogcd spam niche, the best story quest niche. See all the niches! More niches means better job so drks the best nao.

Sheesh. Having a passive 0-10% parry based on gauge while in a tank stance no one uses doesnt make war a parry tank or have some made up parry niche. Raw in is just a 20% physical mit skill. If raw makes war the party tank then drk has a stupendous magic defense niche with 30% and once a minute. So drk has the magic niche. But war is somehow hoarding all the niches. Oh wait. You just look at every unique skill on war and call it a niche, but entirely ignore every unique skill in pld and drk. Solid.

I can run down the list on drk and pick out every unique capability it has and call it a niche drk is hoarding, but you immediately see how stupid that would be. It's just as easy to see when you do it too.

[shao32]

Parry niche? Are you serious? Are we just making up niches to pretend that the world is ended?

zomg! Drk has total lock down on the self shielding niche, the fastest attacking niche, the ground aoe niche, the magic defense niche, highest enmity action niche, ogcd spam niche, the best story quest niche. See all the niches! More niches means better job so drks the best nao.

Sheesh. Having a passive 0-10% parry based on gauge while in a tank stance no one uses doesnt make war a parry tank or have some made up parry niche. Raw in is just a 20% physical mit skill. If raw makes war the party tank then drk has a stupendous magic defense niche with 30% and once a minute. So drk has the magic niche. But war is somehow hoarding all the niches. Oh wait. You just look at every unique skill on war and call it a niche, but entirely ignore every unique skill in pld and drk. Solid.

I can run down the list on drk and pick out every unique capability it has and call it a niche drk is hoarding, but you immediately see how stupid that would be. It's just as easy to see when you do it too.

DRK use to have parry mechanics, now have zero but WAR keep theirs, DRK use to have the best mobility, now WAR get a overall better tool for that, PLD use to be the only tank with raid shielding, now WAR have the best shield between all tanks, WAR get rampart coming from nowhere but his mitigation kit was untouched, now is the best mitigation tank too, self-healing WAR is still unbeatable, ect ect.

When we look at heavenward every tank was more unique, the imbalance was just a matter of numbers, DRK mobility, reprisal, parry mechanics, int down, the job bring unique stuff to the party, PLD the same despite being low in magic defense bring party shielding cover as do now too, clemency, str ect down.

And now PLD shielding is surpased by WAR shielding, DRK mobility is surpassed by WAR mobility, both tank mitigation are surpassed by WAR mitigation, tank stance are being always surpassed by WAR defiance and I can still going.

[Phoenicia]

Sorry for double posting.

When we look at heavenward every tank was more unique, the imbalance was just a matter of numbers, DRK mobility, reprisal, parry mechanics, int down, the job bring unique stuff to the party, PLD the same despite being low in magic defense bring party shielding cover as do now too, clemency, str ect down.

And now PLD shielding is surpassed by WAR shielding, DRK mobility is surpassed by WAR mobility, both tank mitigation are surpassed by WAR mitigation, tank stance are being always surpassed by WAR defiance and I can still going.

HW balance was just Numbers? It was MUCH MUCH more. PLD couldn't block anything worth blocking. All tank busters were magical. It did so little DPS it couldn't push fights quicker and it was somehow the only tank that can't mitigate the x-th mechanic/tank buster that groups have an easier time "skipping" because WAR and DRK's DPS was just higher than PLD. PLD's DPS combo had Savage Blade in it which caused aggro issues when off-tanking. PLD and DRK SUCKED at off-tanking because of TP issues. There were INTEGRAL design issues in HW's tank balance and numbers were just a result of it.

lol Mobility is worth s$!# mate. Let's not pretend it matters. All 3 tanks can manage 98%~99% up-time on all bosses in savage. Check FFLogs. And there are many reasons that is possible. PLD can block knock-backs, has REALLY strong DPS ranged moves (Holy Spirit). DRK can plunge. Healers have Rescue. Let's not pretend that WAR sticks to the boss like glue because of Onslaught. Not to mention bosses barely move and the fight is 100% scripted so you can just pre-position.

"Mobility" matters in games with PvP that isn't an after thought and a net-code that isn't spaghetti. This game is neither. It might also matter with unpredictable fights, which this game doesn't have either.

And please, in HW the tank forums had only 3 topics:

1- STR vs VIT accessories
2- Remove Parry.
3- Buff PLD/Nerf WAR.

Is your WAR jealousy so bad that want parry to be a thing again and take Raw Intuition from it?

How is DRK the "parry tank" when WAR got RI at the same time DRK was added? Nowhere was it stated that DRK was a "Parry tank" anyway. Is it just the interaction of Reprisal? It was only made that way because DRK was meant to "mirror" PLD by having similar but opposite features. Here are a few other examples:

- Physical tank vs Magical tank. (Even though that made no sense with WAR getting RI in HW).
- Shadowskin vs Rampart. Only animation was different.
- Shadow Wall vs Snetinel. Same in CD and duration.
- STR Down vs INT down.
- Combo for enmity and combo that branches from MP regen was also available to both tanks.
.... etc.

PLD had Shield Swipe was to "counter after block". DRK got Reprisal as a "counter after parry". WAR could cross-class for Haymaker from pugilist to "counter after dodge" (OMG EVASION TANK!!!). Parry interaction was just so it has a "counter after RNG mitigation" tool.

So just because you had reprisal and low blows it didn't make you a "parry tank". You don't have a "Parrytron" that forces a parry to ensure the interaction and Dark Dance was bad.

Reprisal was too useful to be locked behind RNG, so SE decided to make a role action. How did losing that 1 parry-reaction ability make WAR step on your toe when WAR got RI at the same time DRK was added to the game?

If anything, DRK was touted as the "magic tank" for its identity because of Dark Mind and Delirium's INT down debuff, and guess what? PLD is the tank that's stepping on its feet now (blocking magic). Not WAR that is still using universal abilities and the ONLY physical-only CD Raw Intuition. WAR can't RI magic.

Speaking of such, why is PLD the tank that got to cross over from 1 damage type to universal (Blocking both physical and magical) while DRK staying magic only with DM and WAR staying physical only with IR? Why is magical vs physical still a thing anyway? Tanks' Fending gear's Defense and Magic Defense has the same value.

In Conclusion: As mentioned before, where tanks stand right now has no bearing on where they will be in Shadowbringers. And even then, WAR is not the BUSTED tank some people here seem to claim. This WAR jealousy needs to end. Let us discuss other tank jobs without WAR being brought in as the tank that does everything better because it doesn't. Kthxbai

[Izsha]

DRK use to have parry mechanics, now have zero but WAR keep theirs, DRK use to have the best mobility, now WAR get a overall better tool for that, PLD use to be the only tank with raid shielding, now WAR have the best shield between all tanks, WAR get rampart coming from nowhere but his mitigation kit was untouched, now is the best mitigation tank too, self-healing WAR is still unbeatable, ect ect.

When we look at heavenward every tank was more unique, the imbalance was just a matter of numbers, DRK mobility, reprisal, parry mechanics, int down, the job bring unique stuff to the party, PLD the same despite being low in magic defense bring party shielding cover as do now too, clemency, str ect down.

And now PLD shielding is surpased by WAR shielding, DRK mobility is surpassed by WAR mobility, both tank mitigation are surpassed by WAR mitigation, tank stance are being always surpassed by WAR defiance and I can still going.

You know why pld shield could be considered a niche? Because its an integrated part of their kit. Shield blocks activate shield swipe for damage/enmity. Shelltron does the same, forces a block, and gives MP to fuel holy magic. Bulwark increases block rate for the above. Shield bash. Passage of arms. They have large portions of their functional kit and aesthetic design revolving around their shield. Drk (HW) similarly had multiple abilities that fed off the parry system. Increased parry rates, abilities that proced based on parry...sounding familiar? War: Has a miniscule, passive parry rate in a stance no one uses. Has 1 CD that doesnt even synergize with that passive because its 100%. In fact it gets in the way of the passive (if it were even being used).

The fact that a tank has a singular action doesnt give it a niche. If that is the definition of niche, then drk gets the magic def niche. The fast attacking niche and the self shielding niche. Funnily enough blood weapon and TBN actually are integral parts of an interconnected kit.

Please continue using double standards to make war sound massively impressive. Im sure it will work if you try again.

Please continue to repeat:
* How warrior crushes every other tank in damage when all 3 tanks are within a cats whisker of each other in actual practice according to both theoretical math and actual in game FFlogs.
* How much warrior benefits from buff stacking while ignoring that every crit buff in the game doesnt help Wars burst window, and other buffs tend to fall on 60/120 timers instead of 90 missing IR entirely half the time.
* Applaud the massive bonus of mobility when you the name of the game is never leave the boss and knockbacks RARELY outpace any tanks option.
* How warrior having a single parry skill with no synergy of any kind deleted the Drk Parry Tank when all people complained about for years was the RNG of parry and how parry builds were useless even on drk and drk shouldnt be based on RNG skills and a terrible stat.
* How Warrior has the best shield when pld has not 1, but 2 party mitigation tools stronger than shake, +cover+intervention.
* Keep reminding me of wars defensive superiority with the lynchpin of your argument being inner beast while every tank worth their salt will never be in defiance and Pld/Drk can freely use on demand mitigation every 15 sec.
* Pluck another single skill comparison like FC/HS/BS out of context of the big picture to prove war OP.

Its the same exaggerated claims with little or very skewed evidence, or in some cases, flatly false claims. We get it. War has been in a healthy or strong position since 2.1 while other tanks have been on a roller coaster ride. That still doesn't justify petty vengeance nerfs in a period that all 3 tanks are the most balanced in the games history.

[Phoenicia]

That still doesn't justify petty vengeance nerfs in a period that all 3 tanks are the most balanced in the games history. most likely MMORPG history.

Fixed it for you. :P

What is it? Now everything is worthless for you or what? Tank shields worthless, tank mobility worthles witch is a DPS gain prevent the lose of uptime in knockbacks, being unable to do anything against that is annoying and a waste of DPS so they really matters.

Everything what's makes WAR surpass the others is worthless so why still exist in the first place? I don't get you logic.

Pretty much yes. If my up-time on boss is 98%, having or not having extra mobility is worthless. I'm doing it anyway. What would having added plunge/TW/Onslaught help me with if I didn't even lose a single GCD for the next 4 minutes or so? If you don't know how to deal with knockbacks on your class, learn2play, it isn't about it not having what the other guy doing with their job because they actually bothered to l2p.

Shields don't reduce amounts of healing done by healer, it only increases overhealing, that's worse that just worthless.

You're just nitpicking and fishing for things to complain about when there really isn't anything. Again, if you REALLY are a DRK night, go cry about PLD stepping on your niche of magic tank because it does it better with Sheltron. And it did more DPS than you for about 15 months of Stormblood. Even that doesn't matter because DRK doesn't die because it didn't have a shield, and it does the MOST DPS between the tanks right now.

[shao32]

Fixed it for you. :P



Pretty much yes. If my up-time on boss is 98%, having or not having extra mobility is worthless. I'm doing it anyway. What would having added plunge/TW/Onslaught help me with if I didn't even lose a single GCD for the next 4 minutes or so? If you don't know how to deal with knockbacks on your class, learn2play, it isn't about it not having what the other guy doing with their job because they actually bothered to l2p.

Shields don't reduce amounts of healing done by healer, it only increases overhealing, that's worse that just worthless.

You're just nitpicking and fishing for things to complain about when there really isn't anything. Again, if you REALLY are a DRK night, go cry about PLD stepping on your niche of magic tank because it does it better with Sheltron. And it did more DPS than you for about 15 months of Stormblood. Even that doesn't matter because DRK doesn't die because it didn't have a shield, and it does the MOST DPS between the tanks right now.

Dear SE, since we consider our DPS and basic mitigation to fullfil our duty it's all what we need please delete cover, passage of arms, divine veil, clemency, intervention, shake it off, onslaught, equilibrium, inner beast, slashing only on WAR, reprisal, TBN effect on others, in other words everything that don't contribute our DPS and our only personal capability of survive since we consider it's worthless, so please no more mobility we are fine with sprint, and no more party utility we can survive anyway, oh tank stances too since they are pretty worthless so put extra emity in our agro combo.

With love, the tank community.

We are gonna have much space for the next expansions.

[Kalise]

-Snip-

If you wasn't just trying to be facetious for the lack of a real argument, you'd know that certain things really aren't as big a deal as you keep trying to make out.

AoE shields on tanks are largely irrelevant. They don't mitigate enough to be notable for the healers on any kind of actually relevant damage to the party. Just like how Tanks LB3 is largely irrelevant for the vast majority of content.

If Tanks shields were like 2-3 times as strong, then yes, it would be a point of discussion because then they could actually impact AoE damage enough to be played around and wouldn't just be completely outmatched by using Reprisal on the boss (You know, that Role Action that all Tanks get)

The difference in mobility for the sake of uptime... Again, I ask you, what content are you doing where you're getting knocked back every 15 seconds to make the difference between Plunge/Onslaught meaningful? Why is PLD so popular when its anti-knockback is on a 3 minute CD surely the job would have 0.1% uptime with all these knockbacks that are apparently everywhere...

Literally the only major thing with mobility is that Plunge is a DPS gain to spam on CD because it uses no resources. So it's not necessarily up when a knockback comes in. Meanwhile, as Onslaught is DPS neutral/loss (Due to slightly less Infuriate CDR and slightly less potency per gauge) it only gets used after the knockback comes in.