Here's why I will not support this healer strike.

[TsubameMikage]

You keep saying give us more to do but more to do means more healing or more dps. More healing means more damage from enemies and more dps would start to make you more than just a healer. In every MMORPG I have ever played the healer is always just a healer and can't do much dps unless they actually have a dps spec for them which took away their ability to heal much.

So what is the point of a healer in this game? We can't get a better DPS kit because then we're not healing. But we can't design the game to make healing actually needed because apparently that's too hard and will make the game unplayable. So, other than being a forced carry on the other 3 people since we bring nothing that can't be better done by bringing a 3rd DPS.. why do we exist? (And don't claim it's for hard content - once it's on farm, the first thing you drop is the co-healer)

[Sadebreth]

So what is the point of a healer in this game? We can't get a better DPS kit because then we're not healing. But we can't design the game to make healing actually needed because apparently that's too hard and will make the game unplayable. So, other than being a forced carry on the other 3 people since we bring nothing that can't be better done by bringing a 3rd DPS.. why do we exist? (And don't claim it's for hard content - once it's on farm, the first thing you drop is the co-healer)

A healer will ALWAYS be needed. That is the point. You can't do dungeons without a healer. The tanks that can heal themselves through a boss, which I believe is only warrior and paladin, needs to be looked at but dungeons are where healers are really needed. Without healers the game might as well not have any dungeons and just let everyone zerg the things. The only dungeons that everyone farms that I know of are pre-made groups where you can cheese it by going in over the level of the dungeon. Me and my daughter got the birds and wolves doing extremes by ourselves that way. If you go into a dungeon at level I have never seen a healer not be needed.

[TsubameMikage]

A healer will ALWAYS be needed. That is the point. You can't do dungeons without a healer. The tanks that can heal themselves through a boss, which I believe is only warrior and paladin, needs to be looked at

Which is it, are healers needed, or can at least 50% of the tanks do the job without one? Both can't be true. If you want to argue that healers *should* be needed, then we agree. However, needed to do what? Because as it stands, even without a warrior or paladin - the amount of actual healing a healer needs to do in any half-decent group is basically 0. Being useful only when people are terrible is not a great way to justify a role's existence.

... dungeons are where healers are really needed. Without healers the game might as well not have any dungeons and just let everyone zerg the things.

We're already at "zerg all the things" mode for several expansions now. Wall to wall pulls are the norm, not the exception and outside of a DRK, already don't really provide much issues in terms difficulty. We've reached a point where the requirement for a healer in DF is arbitrary and forced by the queue, rather than any actual gameplay benefit from having one.

The only dungeons that everyone farms that I know of are pre-made groups where you can cheese it by going in over the level of the dungeon.

Only for previous expansions - I personally have farmed current (then EW) dungeons for glams, among other reasons such as rare pets. You are always stuck at that dungeon's level upon entry.

[Sadebreth]

Which is it, are healers needed, or can at least 50% of the tanks do the job without one? Both can't be true. If you want to argue that healers *should* be needed, then we agree. However, needed to do what? Because as it stands, even without a warrior or paladin - the amount of actual healing a healer needs to do in any half-decent group is basically 0. Being useful only when people are terrible is not a great way to justify a role's existence.



We're already at "zerg all the things" mode for several expansions now. Wall to wall pulls are the norm, not the exception and outside of a DRK, already don't really provide much issues in terms difficulty. We've reached a point where the requirement for a healer in DF is arbitrary and forced by the queue, rather than any actual gameplay benefit from having one.


Only for previous expansions - I personally have farmed current (then EW) dungeons for glams, among other reasons such as rare pets. You are always stuck at that dungeon's level upon entry.

For this expansion you can be 10 levels above the level 90 dungeons if you need something out of them like a pet. Of course you can't do it at higher levels. A level 100 can't solo a level 100 extreme dungeon which is where most of the good stuff is.

I never said the tanks could solo ALL dungeons. I have only seen them do it at levels where they first get their heal which is very low level for a paladin. I don't know about warrior. The higher the level the more the heal lags behind in it's ability because the boss can take them down before they can get their next heal off at higher levels. Like I said. It needs to be looked at. Doesn't warrant a full on strike.

[TsubameMikage]

Seriously these people need to do 1 of 2 things and get off this forum because it's getting abit out of hand with the attitude they are giving off:

1. Change job and realize healing is not for you anymore in this game, you are bored and you need to move on.

2. Play a new game, just unsubb hit SE where it hurts with your protest, because at the moment you are not helping yourselves or the jobs look good at all.

Point #1 is exactly what the strike is about, thank you for your support.

I, personally, am going for point #2 and my sub has already lapsed and will remain so until I see actual action taken to improve the gameplay loop of healers.

For this expansion you can be 10 levels above the level 90 dungeons if you need something out of them like a pet. Of course you can't do it at higher levels. A level 100 can't solo a level 100 extreme dungeon which is where most of the good stuff is.

I was talking about the current expansion dungeons being farmed, I am not currently playing FF as my sub ended 4 days ago and I cancelled my Dawntrail preorder as well. Given historic designs, however, there will be pets, glam, TT cards and similar available to be farmed from the current round of leveling dungeons as well as the experts.

I never said the tanks could solo ALL dungeons. I have only seen them do it at levels where they first get their heal which is very low level for a paladin. I don't know about warrior. The higher the level the more the heal lags behind in it's ability because the boss can take them down before they can get their next heal off at higher levels.

I am not talking about tanks soloing dungeons. I'm talking 3 DPS, 1 Tank groups being better than the standard light party in dungeons. As long as the tank is able to mitigate and self-sustain through the trash pulls, then 3 DPS will outperform on boss fights as there is often very little damage being received by the party.

It needs to be looked at. Doesn't warrant a full on strike.

The strike is what will see it be looked at, otherwise it would be another 6 more years of more disappointment as SE refuses to do anything about their conflicting design paradigms:

The healer role design is based around simplistic damage and an intent that you should be healing the majority of the time.
The PvE fight design is based around easily avoided or predictable damage, meaning that there is almost never a need to use the majority of a healer's kit beyond your DPS filler button.

Both of those two are in conflict and need to be resolved.

Edit to add:

P.S. Healers have never been EXPECTED to dps except by toxic players that have come from other games. My daughter has gotten that also from some people recently trying to tell her how to play her class. Block them and move on. You are letting the toxicity get to you.

Enrage timers say what? Also - JoCat is not "a toxic player", and his crap guide advocates for doing damage as a healer. I could also point to many other guides to playing as a healer that point to doing damage is part of the expected gameplay loop: WeskAlber's 1-90 guides, to the same mentality stretching back to ARR. To claim it was "Only expected by toxic players" is just inaccurate.

[TsubameMikage]

Please don't put words into my mouth, I do not support your strike

You advocate for playing a different job, recognizing that healing is not for those players. Which is exactly what the majority of the participants are doing: playing other jobs that they enjoy.

lingering in a forum of a game you actively dislike is not healthy for your mentality, I wish you all the best when you are unable to post anymore.

I don't dislike FF, I dislike the lack of attention to this aspect of the game. I would love to be playing Dawntrail or trying out Viper right now. I just don't think if I did so, I'd be effecting that much change in a more reasonable timeframe than 2 years from now.

[Sadebreth]

Point #1 is exactly what the strike is about, thank you for your support.

I, personally, am going for point #2 and my sub has already lapsed and will remain so until I see actual action taken to improve the gameplay loop of healers.


Edited to Add:

P.S. Healers have never been EXPECTED to dps except by toxic players that have come from other games. My daughter has gotten that also from some people recently trying to tell her how to play her class. Block them and move on. You are letting the toxicity get to you.


I was talking about the current expansion dungeons being farmed, I am not currently playing FF as my sub ended 4 days ago and I cancelled my Dawntrail preorder as well. Given historic designs, however, there will be pets, glam, TT cards and similar available to be farmed from the current round of leveling dungeons as well as the experts.



I am not talking about tanks soloing dungeons. I'm talking 3 DPS, 1 Tank groups being better than the standard light party in dungeons. As long as the tank is able to mitigate and self-sustain through the trash pulls, then 3 DPS will outperform on boss fights as there is often very little damage being received by the party.


The strike is what will see it be looked at, otherwise it would be another 6 more years of more disappointment as SE refuses to do anything about their conflicting design paradigms:

The healer role design is based around simplistic damage and an intent that you should be healing the majority of the time.
The PvE fight design is based around easily avoided or predictable damage, meaning that there is almost never a need to use the majority of a healer's kit beyond your DPS filler button.

Both of those two are in conflict and need to be resolved.

Edit to add:


Enrage timers say what? Also - JoCat is not "a toxic player", and his crap guide advocates for doing damage as a healer. I could also point to many other guides to playing as a healer that point to doing damage is part of the expected gameplay loop: WeskAlber's 1-90 guides, to the same mentality stretching back to ARR. To claim it was "Only expected by toxic players" is just inaccurate.

You read way too many guides. You also have a dps meter in your game don't you? Tell me one dungeon below extreme, of which are optional, that REQUIRES a healer to DPS? I have played this game since commercial release and the rage timers for regular and hard are not bad enough that a healer needs to dps anything. If a healer didn't have ANY ability to dps they wouldn't get past level 1. Use your damage to do quests.

[TsubameMikage]

You also have a dps meter in your game don't you?

Pretty sure there's no DPS meter in this game, if there is where in the settings do you find it?

Tell me one dungeon below extreme, of which are optional, that REQUIRES a healer to DPS?

Now, you've moved the goalposts. Your initial complaint was that healers are never needed to DPS except by 'toxic players'. Now, you're admitting that there is content where healers are expected to DPS and it has nothing to do with 'toxicity' at all.

Also, if you're a WHM - you should be DPSing on trash packs, because Holy is godlike.

[Magikazam]

You read way too many guides. You also have a dps meter in your game don't you? Tell me one dungeon below extreme, of which are optional, that REQUIRES a healer to DPS? I have played this game since commercial release and the rage timers for regular and hard are not bad enough that a healer needs to dps anything. If a healer didn't have ANY ability to dps they wouldn't get past level 1. Use your damage to do quests.

So you just moved the goalpost. Also since you play since comercial release, you would probably remember Hard Fractal Continuum in Sb. That boss had an ''hard'' enrage for a dungeon and would require healer to dps unless you had Dps going out of their way to play ''optimaly''. That aside i'm sure a few trial with enrage can be impossible at lowest item level possible if the whole group don't contribute with damage. Will I never wiped to it, I'm pretty sure the new Ultima weapon would probably wipe a group with minimum iLevel if the healer don't dps. That aside, I don't see why asking healer to dps is ''elitist'' like let be honest here, should they be afk-ing in the background or wasting mana healing people who are already full of something?