Here's why I will not support this healer strike.

[Sadebreth]

Don't cherry pick him, the rest of Snows quote was talking about how healers are effectively replaceable and that the 1 nuke and dot are boring.

Any more than that and you are getting into DPS territory. A totally different class. It sounds to me like you want a healer dps class right? You can't have it both ways.

And I am not cherry picking. That is literally what that part of the post is saying. I again don't know about pictomancer. Just because it can heal doesn't make it a true healer. Like I said before, I would like to see anyone else be able to sustain an entire group that isn't a healer. Dancer also has a group heal and a shield. It doesn't do much but it is there. Like I said. Pictomancer may need to be tweeked. It is new.

[TheDustyOne]

Any more than that and you are getting into DPS territory. A totally different class. It sounds to me like you want a healer dps class right? You can't have it both ways.

Ah, so SB didn't have any healers did it? Anything more than a DoT and nuke is not a healer? Guess WoW doesn't have any healers either, or most MMOs for that matter.

Most people arguing for the strike want a return to form to what this game once offered, maybe not in the same way, but the same in spirit; when there's nothing to heal we want a small, engaging DPS kit, and when there is something to heal, we want to feel valuable and not replaceable because the team brought a warrior or paladin.

And I am not cherry picking. That is literally what that part of the post is saying. I again don't know about pictomancer. Just because it can heal doesn't make it a true healer. Like I said before, I would like to see anyone else be able to sustain an entire group that isn't a healer.

You specifically isolated that part of the quote to attack it out of context, that's what cherry picking/quote mining is.

[Sadebreth]

Ah, so SB didn't have any healers did it? Anything more than a DoT and nuke is not a healer? Guess WoW doesn't have any healers either, or most MMOs for that matter.

Most people arguing for the strike want a return to form to what this game once offered, maybe not in the same way, but the same in spirit; when there's nothing to heal we want a small, engaging DPS kit, and when there is something to heal, we want to feel valuable and not replaceable because the team brought a warrior or paladin.



You specifically isolated that part of the quote to attack it out of context, that's what cherry picking/quote mining is.

How is it out of context. Tell me what part of that sentence would put that back into context? All the rest is about the pictomancer healing and wanting to do more DPS. That is the ONLY part that deals with the boss doing more damage.

[TheDustyOne]

How is it out of context. Tell me what part of that sentence would put that back into context? All the rest is about the pictomancer healing and wanting to do more DPS.

Because you somehow decided to take a statement about wanting more to do when there's no healing (and how healing is being encroached) by saying:

You want people to take more damage which would make the game harder....

No, he didn't say for people to take more damage and make the game harder. He said he wants to have a better DPS kit (not more DPS) and to not feel replaced by a Pictomancer in a group.

[Sadebreth]

Because you somehow decided to take a statement about wanting more to do when there's no healing (and how healing is being encroached) by saying:



No, he didn't say for people to take more damage and make the game harder. He said he wants to have a better DPS kit (not more DPS) and to not feel replaced by a Pictomancer in a group.

Ok... I am sorry. I will apologize to you and him. I took that as meaning he wanted the boss to be able to hit harder so they can heal more AND he wants to be able to do more dps. I am sorry I misunderstood.

[TheDustyOne]

Ok... I am sorry. I will apologize to you and him. I took that as meaning he wanted the boss to be able to hit harder so they can heal more AND he wants to be able to do more dps. I am sorry I misunderstood.

All good, I apologize as well if it felt like it was getting heated.

[Supersnow845]

Any more than that and you are getting into DPS territory. A totally different class. It sounds to me like you want a healer dps class right? You can't have it both ways.

And I am not cherry picking. That is literally what that part of the post is saying. I again don't know about pictomancer. Just because it can heal doesn't make it a true healer. Like I said before, I would like to see anyone else be able to sustain an entire group that isn't a healer.

We don’t want to do more damage we want to have a more complex way to achieve the same damage…….like the tanks. They do 10% more than the healers and 50% less than the DPS with a rotation near as complex as the DPS, why can’t the healers have something like this?

And I mean every single piece of casual content has been no healer’ed and even TOP has been done healer less, the healing potential of the non healers is insane, but let’s ignore that for a second and say “yes tanks and DPS have high healing but that’s good”, THEN WHY ARE HEALERS STILL DESIGNED AS IF THEY ARE CONSTANTLY HEALING?

[Sadebreth]

We don’t want to do more damage we want to have a more complex way to achieve the same damage…….like the tanks. They do 10% more than the healers and 50% less than the DPS with a rotation near as complex as the DPS, why can’t the healers have something like this?

And I mean every single piece of casual content has been no healer’ed and even TOP has been done healer less, the healing potential of the non healers is insane, but let’s ignore that for a second and say “yes tanks and DPS have high healing but that’s good”, THEN WHY ARE HEALERS STILL DESIGNED AS IF THEY ARE CONSTANTLY HEALING?

I won't because I was surprised they gave DPS and Tank a heal at all but it is very old mechanic from back when the game was hard. Unfortunately they lost too many players because of it and toned dungeons down. Did they do it too much? That is for them to decide. They were losing quite a bit players back then though and had to do something. The heals they put in, at the time, were for the solo player that didn't want to group or to help 2 player groups that didn't have a healer. Now though.... I don't really know but I would assume it is the same.

[Supersnow845]

I won't because I was surprised they gave DPS and Tank a heal at all but it is very old mechanic from back when the game was hard. Unfortunately they lost too many players because of it and toned dungeons down. Did they do it too much? That is for them to decide. They were losing quite a bit players back then though and had to do something. The heals they put in, at the time, were for the solo player that didn't want to group or to help 2 player groups that didn't have a healer. Now though.... I don't really know but I would assume it is the same.

The game has been growing every patch since ARR we have data to back this up, we also have data to show that healers used to be more common than tanks but that flipped in ShB

Regardless you still haven’t answered anything about my point

I’ve told you three times “GIVE. US. MORE. TO. DO. WHEN. WE. DONT. HAVE. TO. HEAL” and every time you’ve deflected about some random point I didn’t even make about excessive out of healer healing

I’m specifically saying if we don’t change the out of healer healing then you need to give healers something to do, I physically cannot make that point any clearer

[Sadebreth]

The game has been growing every patch since ARR we have data to back this up, we also have data to show that healers used to be more common than tanks but that flipped in ShB

Regardless you still haven’t answered anything about my point

I’ve told you three times “GIVE. US. MORE. TO. DO. WHEN. WE. DONT. HAVE. TO. HEAL” and every time you’ve deflected about some random point I didn’t even make about excessive out of healer healing

I’m specifically saying if we don’t change the out of healer healing then you need to give healers something to do, I physically cannot make that point any clearer

You keep saying give us more to do but more to do means more healing or more dps. More healing means more damage from enemies and more dps would start to make you more than just a healer. In every MMORPG I have ever played the healer is always just a healer and can't do much dps unless they actually have a dps spec for them which took away their ability to heal much. The heal spec took away their ability to dps much. It is a give and take. You really can't have both. Sage is the only one that I know of that relies on it's dps to be able to heal but even that dps isn't much. So either way you are going to make the game either harder or easier depending on which way they decide to go with it if they decide to do anything at all. Can the pictomancer sustain healing an entire group of 8 people for a long time? If it can then like I said, it may need to be tweaked but if they are then they aren't doing much DPS. It is a new class. Give them time to tweak it. They can't queue as healers so they would be gimping the group out of a dps if they tried and some bosses would reach their rage timer before they got it down.