#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Supersnow845]

Because it is in SE's interest to avoid single points of failure in the "casual" or regular MSQ content that everyone has to go through. The healer is the redundancy for DPS and tank. The second DPS is also the redundancy for the first DPS because of no enrage timer. With the exception of RDM/summ rez, there is no redundancy for a healer. Therefore healer is the most likely the one to get the "axe" in terms of complexity or stakes because SE's primary goal for MSQ or "casual" content is accessibility. Again, Wildstar was not economically viable and complexity does not work for the baseline "casual" content; it just doesn't sell or retain.

I don’t really understand why you are conflating “fun” with redundancy. Right now whether you think modern healers are hard or easy we can all agree that square enix “desires” to keep the floor for all classes very low and have a lot of redundancy built in

The problem with healers is when that redundancy isn’t needed they have nothing to do. The tanks get their rotations and their mitigations, the DPS get their rotations and their utility. The healers get…………1111111111 and a bloat of overpowered heals.

Nobody is asking to raise the floor (which is why the wildstar comparison is totally redundant) people want a higher skill ceiling so if me or the co healer is competent and we don’t need the excessive amount of redundancy built into casual content they have something else to do. This could be damage options, it could be buffs, it could be utility, it could be debuffs, just anything that’s not 1111111111111111 for those of us who don’t need the 0195010601962069296 layers of redundancy square bakes into casual content

We are literally just asking to be treated like the tanks are

[Punslinger]

That means that experienced and high performing non-healers can truly "carry" a MSQ dungeon (or trial in some circumstances) and there is no longer so much pressure on a mandatory healer class. This should be a win-win for all parties involved: the experienced player promotes their own ego and competency while getting out of a MSQ queue, the new player is less likely to be blamed and face exposure to vote kick or other frustration, and SE maintains player retention.

You could've just written, "I want to be carried," and saved yourself a lot of typing.

And wow, you've managed to combo Sylphie Fallacy #20: "I like that Tanks can do my job for me! It makes healing lower-pressure and more relaxing." into Sylphie Fallacy #26: "Healing has to be easy because Healers have to be able to play the MSQ too. Not everyone who wants to see the Story is good at the game, and so you can't give Healers more buttons, because that's not fair to the people who just want to enjoy the MSQ."

Tanks are also a single point of failure in MSQ dungeons. If a tank goes down during a big pull, it's a wipe. So why not lobotomize the tank role as well? Why should only healers, and all four healer jobs, be designed for people with room-temperature IQs...in Celsius? Why do you Sylphies never, ever answer that question with anything other than a variant of, "Healers are all glue-huffing monkeys?"

The attitude of the "strike promoters" is just elitist or mostly out of touch in my opinion. If you are part of a high performing raiding static, you are going to be doing everything with the same people you know and are not exposed to the very practical concerns and realities of people queuing with the "normies."

I am going to have to ask you to remove that strawman, as it is a fire hazard.

I am not a Savage raider. I do not have a static. I quit healing because it was also boring in MSQ dungeons, even to me, a non-Savage-raiding player of average skill. So no, I am not "out of touch" with the "normies." By max level, you should know what your buttons do, should recognize that every fight is on a script, and should know that you have far more than enough tools to deal with the trickle of damage that MSQ bosses piss out.

It is not "elitist" to expect basic freaking competence from other players.

(This is the part where you move the goalposts and trot out the, "gO pLaY uLtImAtE" line, continuing the Endless Two-Step.)

I will caveat that the allegation that one can complete high end extreme raids without a healer MAY have more merit, but that discussion should be completely separated from MSQ/realities of regular queues.

So you admit we have a point, but refuse to engage with it. Points for honesty, I guess.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Finally this will sound harsh, but if healing is too much responsibility choose another role. It comes with the healing territory and it’s why a lot of healers love the role. It’s not to just watch my team while dead and no one can rez me and think “thank god I don’t need to even be here!”

I don’t play tank much because I don’t like those responsibilities. They stress me out. I’m not asking them to make tanking not needed so I can play it and not have any pressure.

[Dogempire]

Because it is in SE's interest to avoid single points of failure in the "casual" or regular MSQ content that everyone has to go through. The healer is the redundancy for DPS and tank. The second DPS is also the redundancy for the first DPS because of no enrage timer. With the exception of RDM/summ rez, there is no redundancy for a healer. Therefore healer is the most likely the one to get the "axe" in terms of complexity or stakes because SE's primary goal for MSQ or "casual" content is accessibility. Again, Wildstar was not economically viable and complexity does not work for the baseline "casual" content; it just doesn't sell or retain.

I think for SE to be comfortable taking the guard rails off healer for MSQ content, every DPS class and tank would have to be given a resurrection ability. Sounds extreme, but this means that healer has a natural redundancy built in now (where healer otherwise is the sole role that does not have a redundancy), and then the concerns about healer being single point of failure are lessened. If anything, the "strike promoters" should be arguing everyone gets a rez so SE feels more comfortable of lowering the healer guardrails.

Eh, disagree on the second healer not being redundant, good healers can solo heal all content, even ultimates.

Because there's no limit to how many people you can hit with an AoE heal (Well, besides how many people you can have in your party) if you can heal 4 people, you can heal 8. It especially becomes less of a problem when people aren't getting blasted by failing mechanics constantly.

It's especially less of an issue if you're playing AST/WHM because god forbid you run out of OGCD heals you can just use Medica/Aspected Helios once, and because of how infrequent damage is in 99% of content the regen does all the heavy lifting for you.

The second healer is just there to make healing easier, and honestly because of how bad most healers are at letting regens do their work you can just ignore healing the party entirely if you're a second healer. For some reason DF healers have gotta keep that overheal% above 150% and pop big cooldowns at even the slightest scratch or scrape.

[Auteur]

Finally this will sound harsh, but if healing is too much responsibility choose another role. It comes with the healing territory and it’s why a lot of healers love the role. It’s not to just watch my team while dead and no one can rez me and think “thank god I don’t need to even be here!”

I don’t play tank much because I don’t like those responsibilities. They stress me out. I’m not asking them to make tanking not needed so I can play it and not have any pressure.

This is trying to have it both ways for MSQ. Again, the MMO industry tried a game with high stakes for everybody for even baseline content in Wildstar and it failed miserably. Healer is a mandatory role queue for MSQ. You can't be arguing on the one hand to place the stakes on healer high, which can deter people, while at the same time arguing "if you can't handle it then go play another class." That's how you promote a skewed role queue combination for baseline content and QOL issues for everybody due to lack of interest in playing healer due to vote kicking/player frustration/single point of failure issues (again Wildstar tried to up the stakes and place high stress on everybody, and it failed miserably).

Tank and healer both have the problem as mandatory role queues that the MMO industry has to balance complexity while avoiding single point of failure and player retention problems. One of the answers I proposed is creating the redundancy for the healer by giving every single other class a resurrection. The person who claimed tank does not have a redundancy is technically incorrect due to the presence of healer LB3 in raids and in theory a healer could raise and keep the party up just long enough in MSQ content to allow the party to recover (again, we are using MSQ as the baseline here and not savage/extreme). If you give the healer the redundancy of everyone has a rez, and healer is currently the only role without a redundancy, you have a better argument that SE no longer needs to maintain the guardrails for healer relative to the other roles. I think people are discounting how important redundancy is in game design here and one of the fundamental flaws with healer is that healer is the only role without redundancy.

[ZephyrMenodora]

This is trying to have it both ways for MSQ. Again, the MMO industry tried a game with high stakes for everybody for even baseline content in Wildstar and it failed miserably. Healer is a mandatory role queue for MSQ. You can't be arguing on the one hand to place the stakes on healer high, which can deter people, while at the same time arguing "if you can't handle it then go play another class." That's how you promote a skewed role queue combination for baseline content.

Tank and healer both have the problem as mandatory role queues that the MMO industry has to balance complexity while avoiding single point of failure and player retention problems. One of the answers I proposed is creating the redundancy for the healer by giving every single other class a resurrection. The person who claimed tank does not have a redundancy is technically incorrect due to the presence of healer LB3 in raids and in theory a healer could raise and keep the party up just long enough in MSQ content to allow the party to recover (again, we are using MSQ as the baseline here and not savage/extreme). If you give the healer the redundancy of everyone has a rez, and healer is currently the only role without a redundancy, you have a better argument that SE no longer needs to maintain the guardrails for healer relative to the other roles. I think people are discounting how important redundancy is in game design here and one of the fundamental flaws with healer is that healer is the only role without redundancy.

You have been told no less than 3 times you can finish the msq with trusts if you can’t handle those dungeons. This is available to all roles.

Healers are already less common in every mmo I’ve played. It’s why most of a party is filled by non healers. Healers are unpopular in XIV because they are boring. The msq for healers is easy as F so that didn’t work.

Most players of games like challenge and find fulfillment out of not just being barely competent, but good. Learning and overcoming challenge.

There is a middle ground between hardcore and what xiv is.

I have an issue with the mentality that games should provide no challenge and players should face no hurdles whatsoever. Failing with terrible players should happen and then those terrible players can get better and be happy when they clear something.

[Rolder50]

This is trying to have it both ways for MSQ. Again, the MMO industry tried a game with high stakes for everybody for even baseline content in Wildstar and it failed miserably.

Stop bringing up Wildstar, that game died because it had a terrible, bug filled launch moreso then anything else. I know cause I was there.

[Punslinger]

This is trying to have it both ways for MSQ. Again, the MMO industry tried a game with high stakes for everybody for even baseline content in Wildstar and it failed miserably.

No, Wildstar failed because its devs built a "raid-or-die" MMO and then made the raids require 40 people.

People who have played WoW Classic realized that, with the better understanding of the game mechanics that WoW players have now, the old 40-man raids from Vanilla were never actually all that difficult. The hardest part was just getting 40 people together on one night.

There were high stakes for healers in WoW back during what its players unanimously agree were its glory days: Burning Crusade and Wrath. Those were the days of Heroic dungeons where parties had to watch for patrols, and every pull involved multiple pre-planned uses of CC. And yet, things still got cleared by non-raiders. Huh.

And there were high stakes for healers in FF14 back during what its players unanimously agree were its (mechanical) glory days: HW and SB. Those were the days of Cleric Stance, and multiple DoTs to juggle, and AST's old card system, and needing to Esuna WARs when they used Berserk. And yet, things still got cleared by non-raiders. Huh.

The person who claimed tank does not have a redundancy is technically incorrect due to the presence of healer LB3 in raids and in theory a healer could raise and keep the party up just long enough in MSQ content to allow the party to recover (again, we are using MSQ as the baseline here and not savage/extreme).

You say that healer jobs aren't allowed the slightest bit of complexity because lil' babby heawers need to be carried through the MSQ uwu. And then you turn around and argue "well asckslhuallyyly, tanks have a redundancy because LB3, which is only available in raids and not MSQ dungeons."

Pick a lane already.

[Auteur]

I have an issue with the mentality that games should provide no challenge and players should face no hurdles whatsoever. Failing with terrible players should happen and then those terrible players can get better and be happy when they clear something.

This is more of a complaint about society and general gaming industry trends. My personal opinion is that the mainstream gaming industry (and ff14 with SE is in the mainstream camp imo) has leaned towards instant gratification, "participation" trophies, appealing to lowest common denominator (get people their clears through baseline story and don't gatekeep, ex we will never see an OG steps of faith ever again) because that is what sells and that is the economic world we live in. Gamers on this forum and on reddit are a minority and imo the "silent majority" is what SE wants to appeal to because that's where the money is and the market has spoken.

I think on the other end SE acknowledges the decreasing amount of patience higher end gamers have (I want to clear this now and zero tolerance for players making mistakes, get out of my queue) and that also leads SE to the same conclusion of "reducing the baseline" because the corporate perception of higher end gamers is that they scare away the silent majority of customers and they actually become a detriment to player retention as a whole. Consider why PvP MMOs never gone mainstream and League of Legends in the West has a constant player retention/toxicity discussion.

[ZephyrMenodora]

This is more of a complaint about society and general gaming industry trends. My personal opinion is that the mainstream gaming industry (and ff14 with SE is in the mainstream camp imo) has leaned towards instant gratification, "participation" trophies, appealing to lowest common denominator (get people their clears through baseline story and don't gatekeep, ex we will never see an OG steps of faith ever again) because that is what sells and that is the economic world we live in. Gamers on this forum and on reddit are a minority and imo the "silent majority" is what SE wants to appeal to because that's where the money is and the market has spoken.

I think on the other end SE acknowledges the decreasing amount of patience higher end gamers have (I want to clear this now and zero tolerance for players making mistakes, get out of my queue) and that also leads SE to the same conclusion of "reducing the baseline" because the corporate perception of higher end gamers is that they scare away the silent majority of customers and they actually become a detriment to player retention as a whole. Consider why PvP MMOs never gone mainstream and League of Legends in the West has a constant player retention/toxicity discussion.

And it’s unfortunate. In older mmos difficulty created communities. Everyone knew who the good healers were and the good tanks and the good dps and you wanted them on your friend list. Xiv participation trophy gameplay we are all interchangeable nobodies. Probably great for business but to me it’s just inferior.