#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Evergrey]

Seriously? They didn’t dps at all? I would have voted to kick them on the spot. Thats beyond lazy for the amount of healing downtime this game has.

Yeah, there were those who simply didn't do anything if there wasn't anything to heal.
Some were probably kicked due to it ofc.
But there were ofc those who argued against it, saying that kicking them would be an act of Prohibited Activities, like:

• Unjustified usage of Vote Dismiss --Kicking someone despite they're playing their role (Healer (not a dps))
• Expressions that compel a playing style --"I'm playing a healer not a Green DPS. You don't pay my sub!"
• Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc. --Keeping someone from progressing/partaking in the game.

There are probably more that could be used, but you get the drift.
FFXIV players are quick to bring stuff like this up whenever anyone has anything against someone pretty much.

And that was what Yoshi mentioned when speaking of not adding more offensive skills in that pre-EW interview. As it would put pressure on the healers from the other group members to use them, where from history that didn't really work out too well.

[Bobby66]

Seriously? They didn’t dps at all? I would have voted to kick them on the spot. Thats beyond lazy for the amount of healing downtime this game has.

Sadly, this was a thing.

I really, really hate the argument of "You healers asked for this, you got what you want, and now you're complaining!?", I have to keep reminding people that we are NOT a hivemind, most of us DIDN'T ask for this, most of us were AGAINST this, actually.

I've never seen a single healer main back then who asked for our entire kit to be gutted into the worst healer design in the history of games. I have, however, seen tank and DPS mains who complain about healers not healing them and getting antsy about sitting at 90% HP. Of course, SE has to heed their precious DPS players and destroy the healers for them, because apparently if you have a green icon, you're not allowed to have fun.

Come on you know this is not true, many healers back in the day complained about how they spent more time doing damage verse healing and how they wanted more healing actions. The rolled healer to heal not dps etc... Also it was healer players that complained tanks were annoying to heal due to smaller HP cause of DPS accessory usage. Just like dps did complain about aggro because many did refuse to use their aggro dump even if it was ogcd. Sure cases like bard and stuff were annoying and possible to rip aggro off at the start of their opener.

Complaints come form both sides but it does make more sense to cater to the larger demographic. I say this as a SMN main since HW. I miss my old smn but majority did not like it so it makes sense to turn it into something more people will play. They are just doing the same with healers and unfort I bet their data will show the strike has not had a major impact to healer numbers.

[Havenchild]

Seriously? They didn’t dps at all? I would have voted to kick them on the spot. Thats beyond lazy for the amount of healing downtime this game has.

And that's actually reportable for abusing the report system. So you'd houdini yourself for toxic behavior. Congrats.

[Shurrikhan]

The thing about the healer strike that confuses me, didn't healers have more DPS buttons to press back in the day like sch or had more things to engage with such as cleric stance and astro cards? Wasn't healing not as easy for the masses due to cleric stance, and tanks using dps accessories and tanking in dps stance so aggro was more of a group effort.

Overall the game had more engagement back in the day but didn't people complain?

I can't remember hearing any complaints about damage actions save for Holy taking a whopping 2 seconds for its stun to actually go off. That is, until Stormblood, when the first (comparatively small) wave of pruning came through. I can remember significant hype for the added damage actions in Heavensward, however.

As for Cleric Stance, it was bad as implemented. It was designed as a lock-in instead of an actual cooldown, frequently double-cast itself due to latency when attempting to cancel it, and offered only 1 GCD's more commitment than just... not having it at all.

But "clunky due to struggling with terrible netcode amid other oddities" does not make a "we want fewer DPS actions / less downtime engagement". Just like "we'd really like the arbitrary roundtrip ping cost to uptime and ability to double-press a mudra in combat removed so that anyone and everyone can actually weave these skills as intended, instead of only players playing on fiber from within Japan" does not make a "We want the majority of NIN's oGCD button-presses removed," nor "We want at least occasional reason for X job to be taken over the generally dominant job in its role" make a "We want homogeneity." At this point, the devs' job reworks have often required need a Wikipedia game's worth of efforts just to arrive at relevance to the details of players' complaints.

[Bobby66]

I can't remember hearing any complaints about damage actions save for Holy taking a whopping 2 seconds for its stun to actually go off. That is, until Stormblood, when the first (comparatively small) wave of pruning came through. I can remember significant hype for the added damage actions in Heavensward, however.

As for Cleric Stance, it was bad as implemented. It was designed as a lock-in instead of an actual cooldown, frequently double-cast itself due to latency when attempting to cancel it, and offered only 1 GCD's more commitment than just... not having it at all.

But "clunky due to struggling with terrible netcode amid other oddities" does not make a "we want fewer DPS actions / less downtime engagement". Just like "we'd really like the arbitrary roundtrip ping cost to uptime and ability to double-press a mudra in combat removed so that anyone and everyone can actually weave these skills as intended, instead of only players playing on fiber from within Japan" does not make a "We want the majority of NIN's oGCD button-presses removed," nor "We want at least occasional reason for X job to be taken over the generally dominant job in its role" make a "We want homogeneity." At this point, the devs' job reworks have often required need a Wikipedia game's worth of efforts just to arrive at relevance to the details of players' complaints.

Cleric stance was fun for what it was. Could it have been implemented better sure, but we both know that is not what was asked or how people viewed cleric stance. People wanted it gone. It was far from perfect but it was something that was fun to as a causal healer to maximize. Added a sense of growth on my part even if it was kind of an illusion, I liked to see how I could each clear I would have higher overall DPS. It was fun. Reality is different many did not like it and complained and found it unnecessary. It led to many wipes I am 100% guilty of it myself. I killed many groups due to tunnel vision.

DPS would complain about tanks in dps stance but would not use their aggro dumps, healers would complain how tanks were annoying to heal because the HP was smaller since they used dps accessories, healers complained about having to do damage and just stood around. Every role has complained, and let us be real the "technical" issues barely impact cast majority of players. Hell most players are unable to even keep their GCD rolling, let alone double weave.

Track record of SE complain about something it gets gutted. I miss old smn not once did I complain about it, but alas the majority did and bam my main since HW was wrecked for me personally.

[Sani2341]

The thing about the healer strike that confuses me, didn't healers have more DPS buttons to press back in the day like sch or had more things to engage with such as cleric stance and astro cards? Wasn't healing not as easy for the masses due to cleric stance, and tanks using dps accessories and tanking in dps stance so aggro was more of a group effort.

Overall the game had more engagement back in the day but didn't people complain? Healers complained how annoying it was to heal tanks in dps stance, astro complained how the card system was not engaging because it was just fishing for balance and the RNG did not feel good. Community complained sch would have have the fairy heal and end up letting people die? How cleric stance was unfun and clunky leading to unnecessary deaths cause it was just annoying to manage.

SE listened, and now people are upset SE is not listening? They gave the masses what they want a more streamlined experience.

Edit: I am not saying how the DEVS handled stuff in the past was perfect but they did try, and the community asked for the removal of stuff not the adjustment. Yet now they are upset when the stuff is gone? People even stated that we should be careful what we ask of the DEV's because often times things do not get replaced when they are removed.

Surely you have sources for this claim that Healers complained about the old healer Design.

Because if you had been active back in the day (or just went to the depths of ~page 80 on wards of the healer Forum) you'd know that No. Even back during Stormblood AST didn't primarily complain about balance fishing but having the least DoTs.
And that WHM's StB lilies were broken.

[Bobby66]

Surely you have sources for this claim that Healers complained about the old healer Design.

Because if you had been active back in the day (or just went to the depths of ~page 80 on wards of the healer Forum) you'd know that No. Even back during Stormblood AST didn't primarily complain about balance fishing but having the least DoTs.
And that WHM's StB lilies were broken.

I am not going to go through that many threads to pull up threads regarding balance fishing, but wasn't that one of the complaints that lead to the card change because many did not enjoy the RNG aspect and how balance was pretty much the only card people wanted? Isn't that why they pretty much made the cards more or less do the same thing to remove that rng element.

I played sch and smn back then.

Edit: Unless what you are saying is SE just makes changes based off their own whims and just state player feedback but are just going based off their own personal feedback. If that is the case then how is this game growing in population? Is the story in itself all that carries this game?

I get hating on SE is fun, but come on.

They also take player feedback into account in their data. (or at least, I hope they do). So a 700 page forum thread with a ton of people expressing distaste with the healer role should probably turn some heads.

Maybe, I just think that most players are fine with healers as they are so I doubt it will turn that many heads at SE. I hope you guys are right. I miss old healers also, I enjoyed cleric stance and old sch.

[Aword3213]

Maybe, I just think that most players are fine with healers as they are so I doubt it will turn that many heads at SE. I hope you guys are right. I miss old healers also, I enjoyed cleric stance and old sch.

On the basis of silent majority argument, people back in StB were fine with all jobs as they were. I'm pretty sure no one had ever asked for homogenization across all jobs in every role.

I think no one would ever love to see half of their kits got removed.

[Sani2341]

I am not going to go through that many threads to pull up threads regarding balance fishing, but wasn't that one of the complaints that lead to the card change because many did not enjoy the RNG aspect and how balance was pretty much the only card people wanted? Isn't that why they pretty much made the cards more or less do the same thing to remove that rng element.

I played sch and smn back then.

Edit: Unless what you are saying is SE just makes changes based off their own whims and just state player feedback but are just going based off their own personal feedback. If that is the case then how is this game growing in population? Is the story in itself all that carries this game?

I get hating on SE is fun, but come on.

I see good old 'trust me Bro' annecdotes.

Also yes, SE not actually listening to Feedback nor at least acknowledge it, at least from non-jp is part of the reason this thread and the Strike got started.

[Silver-Strider]

Is the story in itself all that carries this game?

I'd argue absolutely. I know I tolerated ShB only as well as I did because the story was actually great. The side content wasn't as plentiful as previous expansions but that was fine for me since I just liked the story elements of the expansion. EW however, was terrible and I had even unsubbed for a year because I couldn't give a damn about any of it; The job designs had somehow gotten worse, fight encounters were mid at best (with some exceptions), the side content had 0 longevity, there was literally nothing to keep me playing. With DT's story falling even flatter and job design still falling down a crapshoot, unless the 7.X content is godly to make up for everything thus far (like SB did) than I just don't see how this is even a question or see why anyone would keep an active sub instead of just subbing to play every patch or so.