#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Stormhold]

someone didn't read the first post in the thread :/

Because first post in this Topic is actually useless. Much better feedback was given further in topic, but no one can bother read 450 pages of poorly argumented responses. If You're tired of answering them everytime, ask TS to make FAQ and do not expect that anything stated there is Axiom.
Problem with healers is encounter design, not healer design. And even then it's not a problem when You get into higher end DF content with questionable skilled players, You need to scrub of the floor sometimes even faster than Swiftcast cooldown comes of. And by raising floor of leveling-story dungeons it just creates Quit moments for paying customers. Because every bump (Trying to buy the game, trying to pay for the game time), every annoyance, every obstacle caused by unexpected difficult spike can be someones quit moment. And this people pay same money for the sub and expansion and keep game afloat. Not sure about mogshop investments.

[Rolder50]

Because first post in this Topic is actually useless. Much better feedback was given further in topic, but no one can bother read 450 pages of poorly argumented responses. If You're tired of answering them everytime, ask TS to make FAQ and do not expect that anything stated there is Axiom.
Problem with healers is encounter design, not healer design. And even then it's not a problem when You get into higher end DF content with questionable skilled players, You need to scrub of the floor sometimes even faster than Swiftcast cooldown comes of. And by raising floor of leveling-story dungeons it just creates Quit moments for paying customers. Because every bump (Trying to buy the game, trying to pay for the game time), every annoyance, every obstacle caused by unexpected difficult spike can be someones quit moment. And this people pay same money for the sub and expansion and keep game afloat. Not sure about mogshop investments.

I mean, the manifesto part gives a pretty succinct summary despite the cringe name.

[Turtledeluxe]

Because first post in this Topic is actually useless. Much better feedback was given further in topic, but no one can bother read 450 pages of poorly argumented responses. If You're tired of answering them everytime, ask TS to make FAQ and do not expect that anything stated there is Axiom.
Problem with healers is encounter design, not healer design. And even then it's not a problem when You get into higher end DF content with questionable skilled players, You need to scrub of the floor sometimes even faster than Swiftcast cooldown comes of. And by raising floor of leveling-story dungeons it just creates Quit moments for paying customers. Because every bump (Trying to buy the game, trying to pay for the game time), every annoyance, every obstacle caused by unexpected difficult spike can be someones quit moment. And this people pay same money for the sub and expansion and keep game afloat. Not sure about mogshop investments.

It's actually not an encounter design issue. It's an all of the above issue. Sometimes you're going to play with bad players in skilled encounters. Sometimes you're going to play with skilled players in easy encounters. No matter what, your job should be fun, just like my BLM is. That is where healer currently fails for some. Healing usage scales with the skill of the party but everything else always scales 1111.

Therefore the topic is not useless, rather it is your narrow thinking that is preventing you from true enlightenment.

This game, and it's hardcore fans, have a huge philosophy problem where encounter design is responsible for everything. Jobs are continuously being gutted in the name of the mystical encounter design, which ironically drives off into being "not accessible" territory the harder the high end content gets. Yet you want to invoke accessibility to account for your simple jobs lol.

And yes I think it's time someone really called that out. Please spare us the false concern with disabilities. If a campaign started to make Ultimates simple and accessible you'd be the first ones crying. All we are asking for is for is a little more focus on job design.

[Saraide]

It's actually not an encounter design issue. It's an all of the above issue. Sometimes you're going to play with bad players in skilled encounters. Sometimes you're going to play with skilled players in easy encounters. No matter what, your job should be fun, just like my BLM is. That is where healer currently fails for some. Healing usage scales with the skill of the party but everything else always scales 1111.

Therefore the topic is not useless, rather it is your narrow thinking that is preventing you from true enlightenment.

This game, and it's hardcore fans, have a huge philosophy problem where encounter design is responsible for everything. Jobs are continuously being gutted in the name of the mystical encounter design, which ironically drives off into being "not accessible" territory the harder the high end content gets. Yet you want to invoke accessibility to account for your simple jobs lol.

Yea, the same design philosophy that has givens us the current healers has also given us the excessive body check mechanics that I have yet to find someone like.

[Turtledeluxe]

Yea, the same design philosophy that has givens us the current healers has also given us the excessive body check mechanics that I have yet to find someone like.

This game, with this engine, can only become so difficult before you need an AI subroutine to keep up with it. If anything Ultimates prove that (as in their progressive difficulty, think about it after 10 more years). It's a road to nowhere imo. Creativity must be balanced between engaging jobs and encounters, so they can lean on one another when the other is lacking. I wasn't around but allegedly StB was this golden era.

I personally see jobs and encounter design as totally inverse currently. Job design keeps going down and encounter design keeps going up. So job design is a race to the bottom and encounter design is destined to hit a ceiling, probably quite soon.

[Stormhold]

It's actually not an encounter design issue. It's an all of the above issue. Sometimes you're going to play with bad players in skilled encounters. Sometimes you're going to play with skilled players in easy encounters. No matter what, your job should be fun, just like my BLM is. That is where healer currently fails for some. Healing usage scales with the skill of the party but everything else always scales 1111.

Therefore the topic is not useless, rather it is your narrow thinking that is preventing you from true enlightenment.

This game, and it's hardcore fans, have a huge philosophy problem where encounter design is responsible for everything. Jobs are continuously being gutted in the name of the mystical encounter design, which ironically drives off into being "not accessible" territory the harder the high end content gets. Yet you want to invoke accessibility to account for your simple jobs lol.

Despite You usign "Ad hominem", which I find disgusting, I'll still reply and point out that Your fun with healers evolves in making easiest content harder to heal. Which actually fully aligns with what I said but You somehow twist the words in the way I can't understand what You try to explain. Give good examples of that? Kaiten and...

Also, please read tooltips. I said FIRST POST OF TOPIC IS USELESS. (I guess by Your standart it is where I should've joke about how light from You enlightenment blinded You so You missed letters?) It's bad, it relays info bad, it highlights everything bad, no one reads 450 pages of questionable posts and replyes to post You don't even read for answer.

Job design is useless without encounter design. Boss HP, potency of attacks and timings all balanced around Jobs being able to handle it. It goes hand in hand, which was perfectly shown by P8S having tiny bit more health than it should. If You scale lower threat encounters to be heal heavy, how much heavier must higher encounters must be. How many casuals healers must leave the game for this? They don't even read this forums. I also read about boss doing unavoidable "Gravity" (% of max HP True damage). Coold idea, but what do we do when we get Synced iLVL tank with min iLVL healer. There is lot nuances people not discuss enough before doing strike.

And of course better times, back then, in Stormblood, You had no problem finding healer in queues for DF, riiight?
And healers do not quit Mythic+ scene in WoW because of conditions You put them in.

[Turtledeluxe]

Your fun with healers evolves in making easiest content harder to heal. Which actually fully aligns with what I said but You somehow twist the words in the way I can't understand what You try to explain. Give good examples of that? Kaiten and...

I'm gonna go out a limb and say that adding a tiny bit of DPS expansion to healer is not going to make it harder to heal. And even if it did, encounter design could offset that for each respective level of difficulty (casual, midcore, hardcore). That's the job of developers-- to balance job design and encounter design, not crush one into the ground for the sake of the other. What other examples? BLM was just reworked into a flare star machine, Tanks are slowly being turned into healers, and sure, Kaiten is something people complain about. It could not be more obvious that devs are now trivializing all jobs and all roles one expansion at a time for the sake of encounter design, and it couldn't be more not worth it. Think about it this way-- next expansion encounters are getting harder so we're adding more mitigation to casters. At what point do roles become pointless?

With respect to healer difficulty, every healers requested adjustments are different (look at the feedback from the mains), so it's not a one size fits all. The devs could experiment by changing at least one healer per the feedback, and then we can see how it destroys the game. I bet it won't.

I said FIRST POST OF TOPIC IS USELESS.

Allow me to amend-- the first post is not useless. Are you happy now?

Job design is useless without encounter design.

And vice versa.

And of course better times, back then, in Stormblood, You had no problem finding healer in queues for DF, riiight?
And healers do not quit Mythic+ scene in WoW because of conditions You put them in.

I've never played WoW and as far as healers not being used, isn't that the thread is about? If they weren't part of the meta back then, nothing has changed. As far as StB and job design, I am going by what players more experienced than me have indicated. Frankly no period of the game is perfect, hence why I did not say "make it all StB", rather I am saying use it as a source of inspiration for moving forward in terms of job design and encounter design.

Regarding narrow views of the game and enlightenment, obviously it's hyperbole so I'm not sure why'd you find it disgusting. What I am saying is, the solutions to the game are not micro in nature, but macro. There will be no progress until the philosophical problem with the game is addressed, in my opinion. And whether he knows it or not, when Yoshi P comments "we're working on job identity in 8.0" , he is acknowledging that problem (a little too late, but better late than never).

[Eraden]

you realize there is a large OLDER player base to this game, as in there are people with disabilites as well that will be locked out of the game if the floor is moved up too much beyond what it is. People in their 50s and 60s who play but don't have the reaction times of young ones in this game? People with disabilites that want to enjoy the normal content.

Mao is one of those peoples. Mao is old and has Parkinson's Disease. Mao knows there will come a time when Mao will no longer be able to play game. This makes Mao sad. For now though, Mao oks because trusts and difficulty selection for MSQ lets Mao be able to still play. Mao nots want MSQ and dungeons tied to MSQ to be turned into DDR style twitch fests. On other claw, Mao nots want see higher levels of contents likes raids and Savage made easy. Is should be hard things to do for young healthy peoples whats has the skills to do thems. Mao nots mind nots being able do raids and Savage. Mao has other things like the gatherings that Mao likes. The gatherings restricted by MSQ though so if MSQ gets too hard, Mao no can even do the gatherings anymore. Mao sad.

[KageTokage]

I'm not sure why people even engage with this topic in this first place if they're really so wholly convinced it's not going to matter.

It comes across as the opposite if they feel the need to keep aggressively downplaying it.

[Stormhold]

Sorry, I'll shorten Quotes to meet character quota:

I'm gonna go out a limb and ... how it destroys the game. I bet it won't.

Homogenization is natural way to prevent some roles from being gatekept. If You want example of roles gatekeeping, please look at this: GW2 Raid Stats - I can't even underestiamate how much not healing as druid was "bad" back then, when "jobs" had "Unique" buffs instead of global "Boons" (Universal buffs every class can self and party provide). By divering Jobs unfavorably people will make PF listings with Jobs they consider viable, and in theory all AST will have 2-3 times harder time of doing PUG runs.
ATM, I believe White mages were unloved child of StB.

Allow me to amend-- the first post is not useless. Are you happy now?

I will when it will be more informative. It is idea which will benefit Your casue anyway. Need to make detailed list more visible.

And vice versa.

And vice versa. Need to see DT Raids and EX before I can side with You.

I've never played WoW and as far as healers not being used ... he is acknowledging that problem (a little too late, but better late than never).

Disgusting because it is Character/Personal attack. I prefer to challenge ideas, because in actual debate, where both parties can try to see own views from lens of opponent truth can be reach. Ad hominem is instant kill to such ways.
As WoW player I'll say that exactly problem I see, people calling for a solutions which will lead to WoW Mythic+ healers. It was not fun, it was stresful, it was always my fault despite some else can't "Check the cast". And what do You think about Heroic Dungeons during BFA? It was even easier that FFXIV. First Heroic dungeon I queued in BFA after a break - Tank and 1 DPS rocket boosted ahead of me (healer) and cleared the dungeon before I could find correct path to bosses. Thx God I wasn't kicked.
As far as I can see:
1 Button dps* - Partially valid, but it will be long back and forth why it's both yes and no. It also sounds lucrative when You have nothing to heal, but will turn into pain in the ass when high damage comes. (Mistweaver Monk from WoW Legion says hell. And hello)
More damage - Mostly not valid. Criterion and Savages already whoop ass to average Joe. Am I stupified when I see Ice Mage/Cure 1/Freestyler sam in Expert 90? Ofc I am, but what can I do but leave. If clueless healer will be a blocker for dungeon progress, they will be kicked, and they won't be able to do duty with players which will result in Duty Support usage or Quiting the game alltogether. Having enough sustain on tanks alliviate need to replace bad healer and I have no idea why DRK do not fit this logic. Ultimates should not be giggled with 0-1 healer, this is on design team to figure out.