#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Gullis]

In low content particularly Prae during the moogle events (before the changes with having so much other stuff to do) I used to see a whole lot of fail on the healer front as I ran it over and over for moogle tomestones. Most of the time it was one of 4 issues. 1. new healer- needs some seasoning 2. Healer doesn't really know the dungeon and gets caught out in the last fight and the big group wide damage kills people because the healer didn't top them before. 3. Healer got tunnel vision in on doing DPS and forgot to check health bars. Finally and this is one that really ticks me off. Healer announces they will be DPSing and we should keep ourselves alive (for me this one is a vote kick + report, sorry it is refusing to do the job they signed up for)

You would be surprised how much garbage happens in low level content mostly because people have no clue what they are doing. That doesn't mean nerf everything into the ground. But it does happen more often than you think.

Got a laugh from that DPS healer. He should give Scholar a shot, as Eos with Whispering Dawn should be enough to easily cover the msq dungeons, without getting in the way of his ruin spam x)

[Myrany]

Got a laugh from that DPS healer. He should give Scholar a shot, as Eos with Whispering Dawn should be enough to easily cover the msq dungeons, without getting in the way of his ruin spam x)

and that is exactly why I have always even back in the days when I first started the game done best with healing on scholar. the little fairie friend made up for a whole lot of my own fails.

[Myrany]

I suppose I should clarify a few things about my gaming and healing background.

I am without a doubt a WoW refugee. I played WoW from a few weeks Before BC released to halfway through BFA. I played ALL the healers though my favorites were holy priest and resto shammy. I was what would probably be called a bit too advanced for LFR but not really in a position for lack of groups and time (was still working then) to push into normal raiding or M+. So yes I healed Cata before it was nerfed. I remember that whole mess. Though my recollection differs a bit from what most talk about. I really never felt the problem was the healers. I always felt it was the dungeon that was the particular issue was very unforgiving and many players didn't step up and just expected the healer to carry the group. Well we couldn't and took the blowback for a whole lotta fail from everyone.

About the time of WoD I was starting to not be happy with WoW and dove into LOTRO HARD. Played both for several years. I played both green and red Minstrel (Mini). Minstrel can be both a DPS and a healer by choosing spec. Met the best tank I ever healed for in LOTRO she was 82 years old. So there is one for those who dont think older people should game.

I originally tried FFXIV sometime in ARR but it didn't click for me. I was still too much in that WoW headspace. Game just confused the tar out of me. I actually tried it again at the very tail end of Heavensward (though I claim to be a sotrmblood baby because it literally launched within a week or 2 of my return). Game clicked for me and I never looked back. I played summoner until it got hit with the big simplification bat then went BLM. Got tired of that and tried some healing which didn't work out for me and went back to the toon I rolled way back in ARR when I first tried the game. Have mostly been a bard since. One nice thing about ranged DPS I get a pretty good view of who is doing what when. I see the heros and the mistakes.

[Stormhold]

someone didn't read the first post in the thread :/

Because first post in this Topic is actually useless. Much better feedback was given further in topic, but no one can bother read 450 pages of poorly argumented responses. If You're tired of answering them everytime, ask TS to make FAQ and do not expect that anything stated there is Axiom.
Problem with healers is encounter design, not healer design. And even then it's not a problem when You get into higher end DF content with questionable skilled players, You need to scrub of the floor sometimes even faster than Swiftcast cooldown comes of. And by raising floor of leveling-story dungeons it just creates Quit moments for paying customers. Because every bump (Trying to buy the game, trying to pay for the game time), every annoyance, every obstacle caused by unexpected difficult spike can be someones quit moment. And this people pay same money for the sub and expansion and keep game afloat. Not sure about mogshop investments.

[Rolder50]

Because first post in this Topic is actually useless. Much better feedback was given further in topic, but no one can bother read 450 pages of poorly argumented responses. If You're tired of answering them everytime, ask TS to make FAQ and do not expect that anything stated there is Axiom.
Problem with healers is encounter design, not healer design. And even then it's not a problem when You get into higher end DF content with questionable skilled players, You need to scrub of the floor sometimes even faster than Swiftcast cooldown comes of. And by raising floor of leveling-story dungeons it just creates Quit moments for paying customers. Because every bump (Trying to buy the game, trying to pay for the game time), every annoyance, every obstacle caused by unexpected difficult spike can be someones quit moment. And this people pay same money for the sub and expansion and keep game afloat. Not sure about mogshop investments.

I mean, the manifesto part gives a pretty succinct summary despite the cringe name.

[Turtledeluxe]

Because first post in this Topic is actually useless. Much better feedback was given further in topic, but no one can bother read 450 pages of poorly argumented responses. If You're tired of answering them everytime, ask TS to make FAQ and do not expect that anything stated there is Axiom.
Problem with healers is encounter design, not healer design. And even then it's not a problem when You get into higher end DF content with questionable skilled players, You need to scrub of the floor sometimes even faster than Swiftcast cooldown comes of. And by raising floor of leveling-story dungeons it just creates Quit moments for paying customers. Because every bump (Trying to buy the game, trying to pay for the game time), every annoyance, every obstacle caused by unexpected difficult spike can be someones quit moment. And this people pay same money for the sub and expansion and keep game afloat. Not sure about mogshop investments.

It's actually not an encounter design issue. It's an all of the above issue. Sometimes you're going to play with bad players in skilled encounters. Sometimes you're going to play with skilled players in easy encounters. No matter what, your job should be fun, just like my BLM is. That is where healer currently fails for some. Healing usage scales with the skill of the party but everything else always scales 1111.

Therefore the topic is not useless, rather it is your narrow thinking that is preventing you from true enlightenment.

This game, and it's hardcore fans, have a huge philosophy problem where encounter design is responsible for everything. Jobs are continuously being gutted in the name of the mystical encounter design, which ironically drives off into being "not accessible" territory the harder the high end content gets. Yet you want to invoke accessibility to account for your simple jobs lol.

And yes I think it's time someone really called that out. Please spare us the false concern with disabilities. If a campaign started to make Ultimates simple and accessible you'd be the first ones crying. All we are asking for is for is a little more focus on job design.

[Saraide]

It's actually not an encounter design issue. It's an all of the above issue. Sometimes you're going to play with bad players in skilled encounters. Sometimes you're going to play with skilled players in easy encounters. No matter what, your job should be fun, just like my BLM is. That is where healer currently fails for some. Healing usage scales with the skill of the party but everything else always scales 1111.

Therefore the topic is not useless, rather it is your narrow thinking that is preventing you from true enlightenment.

This game, and it's hardcore fans, have a huge philosophy problem where encounter design is responsible for everything. Jobs are continuously being gutted in the name of the mystical encounter design, which ironically drives off into being "not accessible" territory the harder the high end content gets. Yet you want to invoke accessibility to account for your simple jobs lol.

Yea, the same design philosophy that has givens us the current healers has also given us the excessive body check mechanics that I have yet to find someone like.

[Turtledeluxe]

Yea, the same design philosophy that has givens us the current healers has also given us the excessive body check mechanics that I have yet to find someone like.

This game, with this engine, can only become so difficult before you need an AI subroutine to keep up with it. If anything Ultimates prove that (as in their progressive difficulty, think about it after 10 more years). It's a road to nowhere imo. Creativity must be balanced between engaging jobs and encounters, so they can lean on one another when the other is lacking. I wasn't around but allegedly StB was this golden era.

I personally see jobs and encounter design as totally inverse currently. Job design keeps going down and encounter design keeps going up. So job design is a race to the bottom and encounter design is destined to hit a ceiling, probably quite soon.

[Stormhold]

It's actually not an encounter design issue. It's an all of the above issue. Sometimes you're going to play with bad players in skilled encounters. Sometimes you're going to play with skilled players in easy encounters. No matter what, your job should be fun, just like my BLM is. That is where healer currently fails for some. Healing usage scales with the skill of the party but everything else always scales 1111.

Therefore the topic is not useless, rather it is your narrow thinking that is preventing you from true enlightenment.

This game, and it's hardcore fans, have a huge philosophy problem where encounter design is responsible for everything. Jobs are continuously being gutted in the name of the mystical encounter design, which ironically drives off into being "not accessible" territory the harder the high end content gets. Yet you want to invoke accessibility to account for your simple jobs lol.

Despite You usign "Ad hominem", which I find disgusting, I'll still reply and point out that Your fun with healers evolves in making easiest content harder to heal. Which actually fully aligns with what I said but You somehow twist the words in the way I can't understand what You try to explain. Give good examples of that? Kaiten and...

Also, please read tooltips. I said FIRST POST OF TOPIC IS USELESS. (I guess by Your standart it is where I should've joke about how light from You enlightenment blinded You so You missed letters?) It's bad, it relays info bad, it highlights everything bad, no one reads 450 pages of questionable posts and replyes to post You don't even read for answer.

Job design is useless without encounter design. Boss HP, potency of attacks and timings all balanced around Jobs being able to handle it. It goes hand in hand, which was perfectly shown by P8S having tiny bit more health than it should. If You scale lower threat encounters to be heal heavy, how much heavier must higher encounters must be. How many casuals healers must leave the game for this? They don't even read this forums. I also read about boss doing unavoidable "Gravity" (% of max HP True damage). Coold idea, but what do we do when we get Synced iLVL tank with min iLVL healer. There is lot nuances people not discuss enough before doing strike.

And of course better times, back then, in Stormblood, You had no problem finding healer in queues for DF, riiight?
And healers do not quit Mythic+ scene in WoW because of conditions You put them in.

[Turtledeluxe]

Your fun with healers evolves in making easiest content harder to heal. Which actually fully aligns with what I said but You somehow twist the words in the way I can't understand what You try to explain. Give good examples of that? Kaiten and...

I'm gonna go out a limb and say that adding a tiny bit of DPS expansion to healer is not going to make it harder to heal. And even if it did, encounter design could offset that for each respective level of difficulty (casual, midcore, hardcore). That's the job of developers-- to balance job design and encounter design, not crush one into the ground for the sake of the other. What other examples? BLM was just reworked into a flare star machine, Tanks are slowly being turned into healers, and sure, Kaiten is something people complain about. It could not be more obvious that devs are now trivializing all jobs and all roles one expansion at a time for the sake of encounter design, and it couldn't be more not worth it. Think about it this way-- next expansion encounters are getting harder so we're adding more mitigation to casters. At what point do roles become pointless?

With respect to healer difficulty, every healers requested adjustments are different (look at the feedback from the mains), so it's not a one size fits all. The devs could experiment by changing at least one healer per the feedback, and then we can see how it destroys the game. I bet it won't.

I said FIRST POST OF TOPIC IS USELESS.

Allow me to amend-- the first post is not useless. Are you happy now?

Job design is useless without encounter design.

And vice versa.

And of course better times, back then, in Stormblood, You had no problem finding healer in queues for DF, riiight?
And healers do not quit Mythic+ scene in WoW because of conditions You put them in.

I've never played WoW and as far as healers not being used, isn't that the thread is about? If they weren't part of the meta back then, nothing has changed. As far as StB and job design, I am going by what players more experienced than me have indicated. Frankly no period of the game is perfect, hence why I did not say "make it all StB", rather I am saying use it as a source of inspiration for moving forward in terms of job design and encounter design.

Regarding narrow views of the game and enlightenment, obviously it's hyperbole so I'm not sure why'd you find it disgusting. What I am saying is, the solutions to the game are not micro in nature, but macro. There will be no progress until the philosophical problem with the game is addressed, in my opinion. And whether he knows it or not, when Yoshi P comments "we're working on job identity in 8.0" , he is acknowledging that problem (a little too late, but better late than never).