#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Exino]

Having been playing a long time myself, I've never felt, personally, like I wanted to do content without a healer. Is it possible? Yes. Its also possible to do a lot of content without a tank. And its also possible to do a lot of content without a DPS, too. I remember doing stuff with nothing but tanks, or all white mages, ect, all the time.

I mained Monk through ARR to Stormblood and switched to Gunbreaker in Shadowbringers. Healing has always been my second role. The only complaint I've ever had is it would be nice to have more to DPS than 1 DD, 1 AOE, 1 DOT. But I don't see how a whole array of DPS abilities would work with limited hotbar/controller space without fundamentally removing the vast majority of healing options.

Homogenization will always be a thing because you are mixing only two base ingredients: the damage you take and the damage you give. You only mix up the ways you manage them and the ways you display them.

The problem with the healer kit is that, to be most efficient at your job damage-wise—which is often a requirement set by the game itself in harder content—you can almost always only use two to three buttons in a very uninteresting fashion, without combos and special interactions like damage dealers or tanks have.

How this should be changed is entirely up for discussion after hearing options from SE. We really just want to be heard and for the game to be changed in a way that does not negatively impact other players. We want our gameplay to be better, not for yours to be worse. Even the latest content is becoming much less enjoyable more quickly due to poorly designed damage kits. Please let us have fun. Thank you.

[Jeycht]

Well, homogenization will always be a thing because you are mixing only 2 base ingredients: the damage you take and the damage you give. You only mix up the ways you manage them and the ways you display them.

The problem in healer kit is, that in order to be most efficient at your job damage wise, which is often a game requirement set by the game itself in harder content, you can almost always only use two to three buttons in a very uninteresting fashion, without combos and special interactions like damage delears or tanks do.

How this should be changed is entirely up for discussion after hearing options from SE. We really just want to be heard and for the game to be changed in a way that does not negatively impact other players. We want our gameplay to be better, not for yours to be worse. Please let us have fun. Thank you.

I guess you gonna ignore the fact that I'm healer too. And I don't want those change.
When I played years ago I was thinking "oh, not much damage, why do I need to heal?" I don't anymore.

Again, it will only be a illusion of choice. It's not better on other jobs. You only think it is because you see a shiny button up after doing 123, or using jump 2 times you have another ogcd to click.

I see the game as a "puzzle" you try to complete it. I don't care about how much buttons I have to press to do something.

[Exino]

I guess you gonna ignore the fact that I'm healer too. And I don't want those change.
When I played years ago I was thinking "oh, not much damage, why do I need to heal?" I don't anymore.

Again, it will only be a illusion of choice. It's not better on other jobs. You only think it is because you see a shiny button up after doing 123, or using jump 2 times you have another ogcd to click.

I see the game as a "puzzle" you try to complete it. I don't care about how much buttons I have to press to do something.

But let it be 123 or 111211123, not 111111111. I can't believe you like having such massive windows of one-button spamming. If the game design allows for such long windows, it should compensate by making these windows more engaging and/or less boring.
We want options for when it comes to moments when the game doesn't require us to heal. How this can be done is up for discussion after SE acknowledges the problem and show us the options.

[Jeycht]

But let it be 123 or 111211123, not 111111111. I can't believe you like having such massive windows of one-button spamming. If the game design allows for such long windows, it should compensate by making these windows more engaging and/or less boring.

idk. Not a problem to me.
I mean, there is a lot of people (dps and tank) willing to have all combo on 1 button to only have to click 1111111; making it the same as an actual healer.
So the question is, why those people want a gameplay that looks like healers, but healers want it more? It's weird.

[Exino]

idk. Not a problem to me.
I mean, there is a lot of people (dps and tank) willing to have all combo on 1 button to only have to click 1111111; making it the same as an actual healer.
So the question is, why those people want a gameplay that looks like healers, but healers want it more? It's weird.

Because the game design went in a completely different direction for those classes. The game gave them too many damage options in too many different sequences, and it became a nuisance. It's the opposite end of the spectrum for healers.

[Jeycht]

Because the game design went in a completely different direction for those classes. The game gave them too many damage options in too many different sequences, and it became a nuisance. It's the opposite end of the spectrum for healers.

It's not, they have simplified every jobs (see my post above)

[Eorzean_username]

I mean, there is a lot of people (dps and tank) willing to have all combo on 1 button to only have to click 1111111; making it the same as an actual healer.
So the question is, why those people want a gameplay that looks like healers, but healers want it more? It's weird.

This is disingenuous. There is significantly more to any Tank or DPS offensive Action set than their primary combo. Even if you gave them Auto-Combo as a consolidation option, they would still have plenty of other sequences and Actions in their total DPS tool-set.

In the current Healer design, if the only change that you made was to give healers a 1-2-3 Auto-Combo, then Healers would be less visually-monotonous, but still have essentially nothing else to do, manage, track, or engage-with systematically when occupying GCD time.

Have you done dungeons with random healer or are you always doing them as healer? Same with any content lvl90, trial or normal raid. Are you playing with a healer friend? You won't make me believe you never saw (or rarely) a healer not dpsing AT ALL when being MAX lvl and not first timer. Or you are not playing the same game as me. Or only spaming medica/cure or equivalent

Do you know how many scholars I see spamming physick at level 90?

This occurred in ARR, HW, and SB, also.

All you are doing is confirming that dismantling and hyper-simplifying Healers has done nothing to actually "help" the subset of Players that do not comprehend, or perhaps do not care, about how the gameplay system is intended to function.

Therefore, once again, the changes harm more motivated Players while changing essentially nothing about the situation for unmotivated or confused Players.

It seems like the developers should invest more time and energy into encouraging players to learn to play "as intended", rather than trying to figure-out how to delete even more functionality and mechanics from the Jobs and Roles.

you know that this is unhealthy right? getting extremely aggravated bc someone wants to play a certain class lol. hope you get better.

The person that you quoted was obviously aggravated about the fact that the presence of a specific Job means that said person's entire Role will be essentially-unnecessary in a piece of content that is designated as requiring a Trinity Party to enter and complete.

It is not unreasonable nor unhealthy to feel "aggravated" if you were looking forward to playing a specific mini-game, promised by the User Interface that you would be playing a specific mini-game, and then randomly find out upon loading into the server that you actually won't be playing that mini-game, but you are still contractually-obligated to spend 20 minutes of your time following someone else around and watching them play it.

[Jeycht]

This is disingenuous. There is significantly more to any Tank or DPS offensive Action set than their primary combo. Even if you gave them Auto-Combo as a consolidation option, they would still have plenty of other sequences and Actions in their total DPS tool-set.

In the current Healer design, if the only change that you made was to give healers a 1-2-3 Auto-Combo, then Healers would be less visually-monotonous, but still have essentially nothing else to do, manage, track, or engage-with systematically when occupying GCD time.

This occurred in ARR, HW, and SB, also.

All you are doing is confirming that dismantling and hyper-simplifying Healers has done nothing to actually "help" the subset of Players that do not comprehend, or perhaps do not care, about how the gameplay system is intended to function.

Therefore, once again, the changes harm more motivated Players while changing essentially nothing about the situation for unmotivated or confused Players.


Edit: Don't get me wrong. It's not that I don't want change. Everything need change and not healer only. But I definitly don't want a pseudo "more engaging" healer by simply adding a proc and some more buttons here and there to have a "rotation"

It seems like the developers should invest more time and energy into encouraging players to learn to play "as intended", rather than trying to figure-out how to delete even more functionality and mechanics from the Jobs and Roles.

The person that you quoted was obviously aggravated about the fact that the presence of a specific Job means that said person's entire Role will be essentially-unnecessary in a piece of content that is designated as requiring a Trinity Party to enter and complete.

It is not unreasonable nor unhealthy to feel "aggravated" if you were looking forward to playing a specific mini-game, promised by the User Interface that you would be playing a specific mini-game, and then randomly find out upon loading into the server that you actually won't be playing that mini-game, but you are still contractually-obligated to spend 20 minutes of your time following someone else around and watching them play it.

There is nothing to manage for any jobs outside of savage and ultimate. Again, not a healer only problem. Looks like people enjoy ignorant what actually happen for other jobs.
You won't tell me you don't have to manage anything as healer in savage week1. After that the gear make the diff.

For your second part, what do you want to keep on your game as a dev? The minority that probably gonna stay (or at worst leave but whatever) or the majority ?

In fact, the problem aren't jobs only, they are fights too. Atleast I feel (and I insist on feel, maybe I'm wrong) fight were more engaging. But since they nerf everything anyway, even basic dungeons, taking off mech too.

[Hellebore_Ghrian]

In fact, the problem aren't jobs only, they are fights too. Atleast I feel (and I insist on feel, maybe I'm wrong) fight were more engaging. But since they nerf everything anyway, even basic dungeons, taking off mech too.

Majority of us knows that jobs AND fight design are problems. It's even in the manifesto in the 1st post. But what is easier to fix 1st? jobs by tweaking/adding/removing some skills or rebuilding years of content?

[GoodPerson]

There is nothing to manage for any jobs outside of savage and ultimate. Again, not a healer only problem. Looks like people enjoy ignorant what actually happen for other jobs.
You won't tell me you don't have to manage anything as healer in savage week1. After that the gear make the diff.

For your second part, what do you want to keep on your game as a dev? The minority that probably gonna stay (or at worst leave but whatever) or the majority ?

In fact, the problem aren't jobs only, they are fights too. Atleast I feel (and I insist on feel, maybe I'm wrong) fight were more engaging. But since they nerf everything anyway, even basic dungeons, taking off mech too.

To briefly chime in (also in response to your other post), the illusion of fun and engagement, is still fun. Job actions(especially in context to tanks and dps) are more nuanced than just "12345 67854 and repeat, ogcd are fluff". They have interactivity and depth within the kit, regardless if you want to just call 12 3(dot) on dragoon the same as 12 3(dot) on monk the same they're more than just 123. More importantly, Dps have a pay off that's fun to achieve in the way of i.e Monk's Masterful Blitz , or in DRGs case ... Geirskogul? (I don't play DRG sorry but you know what I mean.)

Dps still get to manage these parts of their class in and out of soft-mid-and hardcore content, barring being level syncd. Healers do Not.

And in response to not having anything to manage to heal in savage week 1, actually, yes! While it's isn't "nothing" , the tried and true method of simply throwing out a ogcd twice (or at times once) per raid wide and truck on mashing glare is usually the defacto prog method (Edit: Just remembered WHM generally couple raid wides with a Medicia 2+Aslyum when they want to be extra safe. But, Generally, if the cohealer is atleast doing something, only one of these is usually enough) . Beyond that once you start getting into optimization, healers generally optimize the fastest of the roles in terms of where to sprinkle their ogcds, which is admittedly where most of the fun is. Also in Week 1 prog, you're more likely to cause a wipe due to: [Body check, Enrage, Too many vuln stacks, Failed Mechanic] than you are lack of healing. Even being generous, your casts as a progging healer are going to be your primary damage button and maybe the occasional spot heals on tanks as they acclimate to what the encounter is demanding of them, as spamming Medicia equivalent or cure equivalent just burns your mana pool which then stops you from using Res lol.

Also! Dps still get to engage in the content in a meaningful way beyond week 1, even with gear. Healers just kind of get stuck with popping a MND pot and using CDs more aggressively, which stills ends up being mashing 1.