#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[PercibelTheren]

There's not going to be a lot of logs like that in more recent expansions, because if there is a group that has an accident, you don't clear.

The party just instantly dies. You're not even allowed to salvage most encounters. If someone "makes a mistake" in P9S limit cut, how exactly are we going to salvage that pull? That's the first fight. We're not even talking about P10S or P12S.

Sure, we have things like "DeathCOB" as our fringe outlier, but even content outside of savage, things like Criterion or Delubrum Savage make it a point to demand mechanical consistency above all else, because the consequence is a wipe that the healers cannot recover from, not because they don't have the resources, but because the fight mechanics will force death. I'm not promoting zombie'ing through fights, but I am saying there is a reason people are kinda over getting body checked every 2 minutes.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of bodychecks, either. I think a major part of a healer's skillset is not panicking when everything goes south, going into triage mode and pulling the group through the situation. Most Endwalker fights don't let you do that, though. One person screws up, everyone dies. This is why I'm much more in favor of stuff like soft enrages (like P5S) and other "punishments" for failing a mechanic, like vuln stacks or debuffs that can be Esuna'd.

[Eorzean_username]

I think that tanks and healers are as they are today because people years ago complained about how anxiety inducing and stressful playing a tank / healer was, so SE simplified them.

What I don't understand, though, is that in HW, for example, my queue times as DPS were... equal to, if not faster than, how they are now. And queueing as Healer, while usually faster than DPS, also usually took noticeably longer to pop than Tank.

I remember entering and regularly-clearing every kind of "matchmade" Duty Finder content (ie, not wiping repeatedly because people just couldn't handle playing HW/SB Healer). And I also remember not waiting any longer for PFs to fill Healer slots than I do now (or whatever, "now" = back when Anabaseios released). It actually seemed, anecdotally, quicker to fill Healer Slots in PF in HW and SB? Like if I put up a weekly reclear party in, for example, SigmaScape, I'd usually have the Healer Slots filled pretty quick.

So if ARR/HW/SB Healing was causing people so much distress and anxiety... why did it seem like so many people were voluntarily playing Healers back then? The Healer population does not seem to have expanded as a result of the repeated cascade of simplifications.

But this is all "my impressions", which I'm aware is not "data", so if someone thinks that they have a more accurate and concrete way of comparing Role populations over time, that would be useful to examine.

I can't argue with nostalgia, but that's the only real value Cleric Stance had: nostalgia.

Okay, I understand that you seem to feel strongly about your dislike of Cleric Stance, but just because someone liked something that you didn't, doesn't mean that their enjoyment of the mechanic is solely "nostalgia".

I felt distinctly disappointed when HW transitioned into SB 4.0 and Cleric Stance became a generic Gerber 1st Foods "No Mercy".

I think I'm allowed to trust my own judgment and memories about how I felt when a mechanic changed.

It's fine if that puts me in the minority, but I'm not confused about how many hours of fun I had juggling in and out of Cleric in all levels of content, even baby nonsense like Guildhests. In fact, that's another thing that made Cleric a cool mechanic to me — it didn't really matter what content I was doing, even in really easy or boring stuff, I could derive some fun from experimenting with how far I was willing to push with dipping into Cleric vs. playing it safe.

[Evergrey]

What I don't understand, though, is that in HW, for example, my queue times as DPS were... equal to, if not faster than, how they are now. And queueing as Healer, while usually faster than DPS, also usually took noticeably longer to pop than Tank.

I remember entering and regularly-clearing every kind of "matchmade" Duty Finder content (ie, not wiping repeatedly because people just couldn't handle playing HW/SB Healer). And I also remember not waiting any longer for PFs to fill Healer slots than I do now (or whatever, "now" = back when Anabaseios released). It actually seemed, anecdotally, quicker to fill Healer Slots in PF in HW and SB? Like if I put up a weekly reclear party in, for example, SigmaScape, I'd usually have the Healer Slots filled pretty quick.

So if ARR/HW/SB Healing was causing people so much distress and anxiety, like... why did it seem like so many people were voluntarily playing Healers back then? The Healer population does not seem to have expanded as a result of the repeated cascade of simplifications.

But this is all "my impressions", which I'm aware is not "data", so if someone thinks that they have a more accurate and concrete way of comparing Role populations over time, that would be useful to examine.

Who knows, I certainly don't.
I mained a tank from ARR up to EW so I had inta-pops in queues all the way.
My viewpoint from the DPS perspective comes from FC members now and then making tired remarks that they've waited X time for a queue, while I was like "damn.. and I get restless (jokingly) if I have to wait for 5 seconds."
The rest about people talking about anxiety and stress playing tanks and healers I picked up from the internet.
To what scale that meant Idunno.
I simply guess that the simplicity of said jobs might as well be tied to that.
I can't see otherwise why they'd dumb down the jobs if there wasn't any problems with them.

[KageTokage]

People are just naturally averse to playing tanks/healers in MMOs in general because many don't like having to be a cornerstone of the party that will make things quickly go south if they die.

XIV is still uniquely generous in that respect because the incoming damage tends to be so low that it's unlikely anyone else is going to immediately die in absence of a tank/healer unless there's a bodycheck mechanic or a non-tank eats a tank buster.

The tanks being nigh-unkillable barring severely piling on vuln stacks and/or undermitigating a tank buster exasperates that further.

[xbahax92]

So if ARR/HW/SB Healing was causing people so much distress and anxiety... why did it seem like so many people were voluntarily playing Healers back then? The Healer population does not seem to have expanded as a result of the repeated cascade of simplifications.

But this is all "my impressions", which I'm aware is not "data", so if someone thinks that they have a more accurate and concrete way of comparing Role populations over time, that would be useful to examine.

It's because battle design changed to the worse alongside simplified healer kits. Compare current 24man raid to Ivalice raids. Ofcourse, things were more stressful back then. Add on top the busy piano kit to that. No wonder people were crying that the game was to difficult. Atm the design choices tend to be body checks and sadly to often to my taste.
I dont see any reason not to return to then, though. Bad people gonna be bad, lazy people gonna be lazy.

[Zakuyia]

see the problem with this thread is that some of the Ideas come off as stupid and dumb like more damage and what not. Don't get me wrong I get yall wanna do more damage but then question comes into how much more than a Red DPS if so are u planning to just phase out DPS?
For Me I would love to see Astro reverted back to where cards actually had more uses than just balance. I think cards should allow MP regen, Defence Buff, Attack Speed, Cast Speed, and Attack Buff and it should be able to switch between shields and heals, scholar should have both dots back, sage healing / shields should be slightly more buffed
I dont think Healers should ever out damage a DPS thats to me just plain stupid. If I want more damage I'll go play Blm or Reaper..... or..... RED MAGE btw Its both blm and WHM cause of lore reasons but all jokes this movement kinda stupid with the insane request and understandable for the reasonable request.

[Zakuyia]

It's because battle design changed to the worse alongside simplified healer kits. Compare current 24man raid to Ivalice raids. Ofcourse, things were more stressful back then. Add on top the busy piano kit to that. No wonder people were crying that the game was to difficult. Atm the design choices tend to be body checks and sadly to often to my taste.
I dont see any reason not to return to then, though. Bad people gonna be bad, lazy people gonna be lazy.

But the over simplified is what happens when you mainstream something to get everyone in. You simplify it to make it easy for everyone to get use to. Ask the casuals if they believe raids are hard, then ask about ex, unreal, savage and ultimate. You be surprise how indepth the fighting gets for them vs us.

[Loggos]

see the problem with this thread is that some of the Ideas come off as stupid and dumb like more damage and what not. Don't get me wrong I get yall wanna do more damage but then question comes into how much more than a Red DPS if so are u planning to just phase out DPS?
For Me I would love to see Astro reverted back to where cards actually had more uses than just balance. I think cards should allow MP regen, Defence Buff, Attack Speed, Cast Speed, and Attack Buff and it should be able to switch between shields and heals, scholar should have both dots back, sage healing / shields should be slightly more buffed
I dont think Healers should ever out damage a DPS thats to me just plain stupid. If I want more damage I'll go play Blm or Reaper..... or..... RED MAGE btw Its both blm and WHM cause of lore reasons but all jokes this movement kinda stupid with the insane request and understandable for the reasonable request.

Most people don't want more damage in terms of numbers, they want more interesting and engaging ways to deal the damage we currently have. Right now our damage is primarily concentrated on one cast and a dot. As an alternative our damage could be distributed across more skills, such as giving SCH back their dot management while adjusting all damage numbers accordingly.

[Ramiee]

see the problem with this thread is that some of the Ideas come off as stupid and dumb like more damage and what not. Don't get me wrong I get yall wanna do more damage but then question comes into how much more than a Red DPS if so are u planning to just phase out DPS?
For Me I would love to see Astro reverted back to where cards actually had more uses than just balance. I think cards should allow MP regen, Defence Buff, Attack Speed, Cast Speed, and Attack Buff and it should be able to switch between shields and heals, scholar should have both dots back, sage healing / shields should be slightly more buffed
I dont think Healers should ever out damage a DPS thats to me just plain stupid. If I want more damage I'll go play Blm or Reaper..... or..... RED MAGE btw Its both blm and WHM cause of lore reasons but all jokes this movement kinda stupid with the insane request and understandable for the reasonable request.

Healers don't want to out damage DPS, i doubt most even want to approach Tank damage either. They just want damage dealing that isn't just 1111112111111, because the better you become at healing the less healing you'll have to do and because of that you will mostly be pressing DPS buttons so improving them to be something more than 11111 is the main way to fix this.

[Kathryn]

Most people don't want more damage in terms of numbers, they want more interesting and engaging ways to deal the damage we currently have. Right now our damage is primarily concentrated on one cast and a dot. As an alternative our damage could be distributed across more skills, such as giving SCH back their dot management while adjusting all damage numbers accordingly.

I would suggest going the 2 tier spell route like in WoW with "Holy Shock" for example, can do moderate damage to an enemy or heal an ally for a greater value, my only concern with this is FFXIV has considerable UI lag and more often than not you will damage an enemy instead of targetting an ally for heal knocking in you GCD, I alrdy see this happening with SGE when using the oGCD heal when switching from attacking to healing, it doesnt happen often but i have to slow myself down in order to not end up healing myself instead of my intended target.

Er but yeah thats my 2 cents on how changes could be made but im outta here before i get jumped for being a complete hater again.