#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Eorzean_username]

This is actually one of the statements I stand by. To me, personally, if the choice is between clearing, or wiping and starting over, I'd rather have the clear. The person in question... I think said both healers died? Which is why I said to play better. Because the tanks wouldn't have had to take over if nobody died in the first place. I think it's good that the tanks are able to do that. So if you're dying because you're not doing mechanics correctly, you need to play better. I've died because I didn't do mechanics correctly. The solution was to play better. Telling someone to play better- in this context- is not meant to be a personal attack, it's meant to be an obvious statement.

Look, I don't have any problem if you just want to express a difference of opinion or priorities vs. other players. Ultimately, that's what we're all going to be doing, since this is a subjective hobby experience, not an objective science (to whatever extent science can manage to be objective).

But if you're going to constantly flip-flop between brazen mockery and shite-posting, and then lecturing people here about "being better" and "doing better" and "holding ourselves to a higher standard", at some point, I feel like the hypocrisy reaches thermal-runaway critical mass.

Now, as for my own decision — I feel like trite apologies are so overdone in modern media that they've become mostly-meaningless, so let me try something more sincere: I acknowledge that extending beyond the boundaries of this thread was likely, objectively, inappropriate, and that you — and others — are within-rights to call me out for that.

However, my reason for doing so was not to try to "hurt" you, but instead to try to demonstrate that you clearly do not appreciate when similar tactics to your own here are used against other issues which matter to you. And further, that you seem to hold contradictory viewpoints solely inside this thread, for what seems to be just the sake of trying to discredit this "movement", as you call it.

So, I supplied outside context in order to frame a general question: If your own viewpoints and "standards" aren't even consistent, then why do you want us to take your stance here seriously? Especially when you have frequently characterised the opinions held by others here as "not worthy of being taken seriously" (to paraphrase).

For example, you claimed to find it upsetting that someone was told "only Savage matters" when you tried to encourage players to perform better in Dungeon content. Yet in this thread, you have repeatedly told people that their opinion doesn't matter because they don't play Savage, and also stated that Dungeon content doesn't matter and is irrelevant to the game.

This is why I struggle to see your presence here as anything other than a calculated tactic to try to leverage the situation to your own benefit — ie, to try to ensure that no one can bring up the possibility of Tank Sustain being reduced without being blocked and redirected by you.

I mean, your first post here was to say that you're not in support of the Healers, but you're "not not" in support of them. You've seemed disinterested in the concerns here from the beginning, mostly just seeking opportunities to discredit any discussion that Tank Sustain might have crossed the line into being over-tuned.

Guys can you just leave it? This conversation is about healers not your own petty squabbles. The more you argue the more traction this gets which is the point of the healer role been invalidated.

This would be true if we were arguing about a character's Glamour choices, but in this case, the "petty squabbles" are directly related to the "conversation about healers", and someone's repeated attempts to derail and discredit it. I consider that "on-topic", at least at a meta-level.

[Supersnow845]

I think we need to put some more effort into self moderating here

We already have a massive healer issues thread going as well as many suggestions buried in the healer forums.

Maybe we should transition to something more like

Person A- asks a question
Person B- here is when we discussed this in the healer forums, have a read of that and tell us what you think


This forum is getting clogged up with gotchas and questions asked as nauseum that are then getting buried and then asked again

[Shyllen]

Assuming a tank nerf happens, and my agency to help my party as a tank is completely taken away in the context of a bad or suboptimal healer. I can pretty much guarantee that I'll never queue for duties again outside of MSQ patches.
There are far better ways to cap weekly tomes (see hunt trains).

Having your ability to clear content be gated by the competency of a single roles is unfair, this is megalomania, I'm sure most of you are aware that tanks aren't needed either in casual(normal) content. Expert roulette can be cleared with two (or even one) healer easily, modern alliance raids too (you can survive a tankbuster in Euphrosyne with literally just divine benison and aquaveil + food @660ivl), Healer only ARs have been cycled through in Dynamis DC partyfinder.

I understand the overly simplified DPS rotation being a problem, but this intense desire to have other roles completely rely on you to survive in normal content even when they never get hit and press their survival buttons very well, comes across as gross and clearly overstepping behaviour. Players of non-healer roles deserve some sense of agency over their game play, especially when personal agency is so lacking in day to day life.

Please make this about your experiences only and don't step on other roles.

[Supersnow845]

Assuming a tank nerf happens, and my agency to help my party as a tank is completely taken away in the context of a bad or suboptimal healer. I can pretty much guarantee that I'll never queue for duties again outside of MSQ patches.
There are far better ways to cap weekly tomes (see hunt trains).

Having your ability to clear content be gated by the competency of a single roles is unfair, this is megalomania, I'm sure most of you are aware that tanks aren't needed either in casual(normal) content. Expert roulette can be cleared with two (or even one) healer easily, modern alliance raids too (you can survive a tankbuster in Euphrosyne with literally just divine benison and aquaveil + food @660ivl), Healer only ARs have been cycled through in Dynamis DC partyfinder.

I understand the overly simplified DPS rotation being a problem, but this intense desire to have other roles completely rely on you to survive in normal content even when they never get hit and press their survival buttons very well, comes across as gross and clearly overstepping behaviour. Players of non-healer roles deserve some sense of agency over their game play, especially when personal agency is so lacking in day to day life.

Please make this about your experiences only and don't step on other roles.

Again it’s not about taking away your agency. DRK has agency between TBN and its mitigation. It’s about not doing our role for us. The tanks are better healers than we are. We rely on the tanks for decent competency to help us clear why do you want to be completely exempt from our help. We simply want our role to be the best at what we do and not have it be overshadowed by another role

If tanks aren’t necessary then by that same nature you can’t be hard gated by a bad healer. We simply want our input in the game to feel impactful and meaningful, not have it play second fiddle to the tank doing it better than we do

[Eorzean_username]

This forum is getting clogged up with gotchas and questions asked as nauseum that are then getting buried and then asked again

I think people are imagining that I did that out of some sort of frothy-mouthed "revenge fantasy", but that's not the intent at all.

I realise that at the end of the day, there's a human being behind every post here, and so calling someone out specifically — especially when I've had plenty of cringey takes in my own post history over the years — can immediately become uncomfortable. And frankly, if doing-so makes people feel displeased, then I think that's a good thing — I would actually be disturbed if that post was met with gleeful enthusiasm, since my intention was not to recreate the JoJo meme of beating-someone down.

ie, Even though I think it was appropriate given the circumstances, I also think that it's good that there's pushback. I'm fine with being seen as "wrong", because I agree, it's not the sort of escalation that should be standardised.

At the same time, I think that it draws a line under how much time and energy is being wasted here bickering and repeating the same statements again and again, including from a segment of "guests" and "tourists" (so to speak) that go out of their way to try to belittle the concerns here. And especially in this case, one specific individual seemed to be disinterested in actually progressing the discussion at all, but rather just repeating the same antagonisms under a façade of semi-cordiality (that frequently flips back to condescension and hypocrisy).

If a more organised and consistent way of dealing with that, without continuing to encourage, indulge, and derail for it, becomes standardised as a response, then I think that's an improvement, and a response that I agree with.

I also take no offense to anyone who thinks that it was an inappropriate solution, and disapproves of my method. That's fine, and if it's a choice, I'd rather that the standard here be "too ethical" and "too forgiving" than the opposite possibility. I am no more above criticism than anyone else here.

[lulunami]

I wonder when tank mains will finally realize that they are actually playing healers.

Tanks do not have to worry about enmity anymore. Tanks do not have to worry about positioning enemies anymore. They are just healers with defensive cooldowns.

[Milkbeard]

snip

This was inappropriate, and should not be reinforced.

If you're reading that massive post and going "eh oh well they did say this horrible thing"

Stop.

If you disagree enough with someone, drop it. Do not bandwagon. Unacceptable.

[BunnyQueen]

This was inappropriate, and should not be reinforced.

Why shouldn't it be compiled how they have been with everyone?

[Milkbeard]

Why shouldn't it be compiled how they have been with everyone?

How are you doing tonight?