#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[RiotSiren]

Again, the actual state of healers in the game is irrelevant to my point. You're demanding SE spend a lot of money to make a lot of changes. Where is the evidence that those changes will generate a net increase in player satisfaction that is large enough to justify the cost? Absent that evidence, these demands are purely based on personal preference, and what gives your preference more weight than the opinions of players who are happy with healers as-is?

If the state of healers is irrelevant to your point, then why are you here, this thread is about expressing dissatisfaction with the current state of healers. If you want to oppose that dissatisfaction, go ahead but if your point ignores that then why are you even here? If we follow your logic then players should never ask for anything to change ever since someone else might like how it currently is. Based on your logic players should never ask for anything to change even unless they can somehow come up with conclusive evidence to justify the cost. This is insane logic, asking for change is feedback which is one of the major reasons these forums exist in the first place.

Players here are expressing their dissatisfaction with the state of healers in this game and refusing to play them until some change comes, something that is fully within their rights. I find current healer dissatisfying, so I don't play them, simple as that, this thread just exist to express that reasoning as a unified front to hopefully get some positive change. Change wont happen without feedback, feedback wont work unless it's noticed, the whole point of this is a attempt to convince the devs that healers need adjustments to make them more interesting in all content. Ironically enough THE ENTIRE POINT of this whole thing is to do EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE ASKING, to show that the net increase in player satisfaction is large enough to justify the cost.

Seriously with the mental gymnastics some people pull in this thread they should enter the Olympics.

[Moonjava]

If the state of healers is irrelevant to your point, then why are you here, this thread is about expressing dissatisfaction with the current state of healers. If you want to oppose that dissatisfaction, go ahead but if your point ignores that then why are you even here? If we follow your logic then players should never ask for anything to change ever since someone else might like how it currently is. Based on your logic players should never ask for anything to change even unless they can somehow come up with conclusive evidence to justify the cost. This is insane logic, asking for change is feedback which is one of the major reasons these forums exist in the first place.

Players here are expressing their dissatisfaction with the state of healers in this game and refusing to play them until some change comes, something that is fully within their rights. I find current healer dissatisfying, so I don't play them, simple as that, this thread just exist to express that reasoning as a unified front to hopefully get some positive change. Change wont happen without feedback, feedback wont work unless it's noticed, the whole point of this is a attempt to convince the devs that healers need adjustments to make them more interesting in all content. Ironically enough THE ENTIRE POINT of this whole thing is to do EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE ASKING, to show that the net increase in player satisfaction that is large enough to justify the cost.

Seriously with the mental gymnastics some people pull in this thread they should enter the Olympics.

As I've said elsewhere, leaving feedback and organizing a "strike" to generate data SE can use to justify changes is perfectly fine. Great, even- probably no better way to go about getting them to make changes. My issue is with people claiming that healers just are utterly broken right now and being extremely insulting and condescending to people who disagree, as well as the entitlement of demanding that SE not only change every healer's entire kit, but also the healing/mit skills on all other jobs just to suit the preferences of people in this thread. Why is the opinion of the extreme casual who likes only having to click Glare/Holy less valuable than the opinions of people who want some kind of complex rotation? Why does the WAR who really loves their self-sustain tools get insulted and belittled for "encroaching on the healer's responsibilities" and told to just suck it up and deal with the idea of having their entire kit reworked to satisfy healers?

If this strike goes as planned and you end up with overwhelming evidence that your cause is incredibly popular, then you can argue that your opinions should take precedence. At the moment, that evidence doesn't exist.

[ForsakenRoe]

As I've said elsewhere, leaving feedback and organizing a "strike" to generate data SE can use to justify changes is perfectly fine. Great, even- probably no better way to go about getting them to make changes. My issue is with people claiming that healers just are utterly broken right now and being extremely insulting and condescending to people who disagree, as well as the entitlement of demanding that SE not only change every healer's entire kit, but also the healing/mit skills on all other jobs just to suit the preferences of people in this thread. Why is the opinion of the extreme casual who likes only having to click Glare/Holy less valuable than the opinions of people who want some kind of complex rotation? Why does the WAR who really loves their self-sustain tools get insulted and belittled for "encroaching on the healer's responsibilities" and told to just suck it up and deal with the idea of having their entire kit reworked to satisfy healers?

If this strike goes as planned and you end up with overwhelming evidence that your cause is incredibly popular, then you can argue that your opinions should take precedence. At the moment, that evidence doesn't exist.

Depending on design choices made, this can still be possible, you know. I've posted multiple times, an idea for WHM which:
Lowers Dia's duration from 30s to 12s, and total potency from 715 to 430
Adds a new GCD, Water (upgrading to Banish) which is always exactly 40p stronger than the current Stone/Glare

With these two changes, playing as we do currently (that is, refreshing DOT when it falls off, and spamming Glare otherwise), ignoring Banish entirely, would give you 98% of the theoretical output of the design. In fact, you could drop the DOT entirely too, and still do more potency than 'the current EW design, if you drop the DOT entirely'. The only situation where you'd have 'ah see the casual is going to lose damage by playing wrong, so we can't have this' would be if you took this redesign and tried to play it exactly as if it was EW's design (refreshing Dia exactly 2 times a minute and ignoring Banish entirely).

Plus, additional design choices would help the player to maintain damage, rather than costing them. As an example, Dia is instantcast. Having 5 casts per minute instead of 2 means 3 more GCDs that allow for mobility. Additionally, Banish could be instant. Not only is that 4 more GCDs per minute, the damage 'lost' by delaying your Banish cast until a movement situation is so small, it's super easy to 'gain' a GCD by using Banish for movement, meaning the player has the opportunity to turn a tiny loss into a big gain using their 'fight knowledge' to their advantage.

Finally, this would allow for cool flashy new VFX. You can't be telling me that casual players would complain about getting access to new cool looking spells, for example if we had a way added for us to use Quake, Flood, Tornado, because 'they like to use just Glare'. 10/10 casuals I know pop off when they see cool animations in the job action trailers, they don't go sitting there thinking out 'ok so if it's a GCD it has to be at least X potency to be worth using over Y', they see Stardiver 2 and go 'whoaaaa big hit very cool me like'

No, the thing that is most important to 'the extreme casual' is that the healing is easily accessible. And that can remain as such, even if we add more damage buttons. In fact, I and others in the healer forums have discussed in the past, ways to make the healing even more accessible. For example, on my redesign of SGE, every base GCD (Dosis, Phlegma, Diagnosis, Prognosis, etc) had zero MP cost. Literally spam Prognosis forever, and you'd never run out. Doesn't get much more 'casual-friendly' than that. That's the ideal situation for the healers, the healing, keeping the party alive, is the 'skill floor'. Making that very accessible and easy to fulfil as a casual is the first half of the puzzle. The part SE's failed at, though, is adding complexity via the 'optional in any content that has no Enrage Timer (aka 80% of the game)' damage rotations. That's the skill ceiling we need to raise again.

[Moonjava]

<snip>

Not to get too nitpicky about some rough design ideas, but I guess I just fail to see the point in such a WHM rotation? I personally wouldn't find "press 3 instead of 1 four times a minute for a 2% gain" to be very compelling. I see what you're cooking with the instant cast options, I enjoyed managing my instant casts for movement on SMN in ShB with Egi Assaults/Ruin 4 stacks, but I think people would complain about that making movement too easy (since that's already a common complaint for healers). To your point about the healing, MP management is a core aspect of healing, especially on SGE- one of the main incentives to use your Addersgall stacks is the free 700MP you get for doing so. I don't think any GCD that doesn't have an extended cooldown should be free, else you risk trivializing a lot of content. Moreover, I don't think running out of MP is a common issue for the casual healer, so I don't think that would be much help for them specifically. And I guess we have different definitions of "optional"- I'm of the opinion that if you're choosing not to do half of your DPS rotation just because you don't feel like it, you're griefing the rest of your party, regardless of the difficulty of the content.

[Somnolence]

If this strike goes as planned and you end up with overwhelming evidence that your cause is incredibly popular, then you can argue that your opinions should take precedence. At the moment, that evidence doesn't exist.

Because job kits are designed for raiding, SE would make some changes if there was healer shortage for that.

If there was healer shortage for roulettes, unfortunately SE would rather give incentives like mounts rather than make changes.

[RiotSiren]

As I've said elsewhere, leaving feedback and organizing a "strike" to generate data SE can use to justify changes is perfectly fine. Great, even- probably no better way to go about getting them to make changes. My issue is with people claiming that healers just are utterly broken right now and being extremely insulting and condescending to people who disagree, as well as the entitlement of demanding that SE not only change every healer's entire kit, but also the healing/mit skills on all other jobs just to suit the preferences of people in this thread. Why is the opinion of the extreme casual who likes only having to click Glare/Holy less valuable than the opinions of people who want some kind of complex rotation? Why does the WAR who really loves their self-sustain tools get insulted and belittled for "encroaching on the healer's responsibilities" and told to just suck it up and deal with the idea of having their entire kit reworked to satisfy healers?

If this strike goes as planned and you end up with overwhelming evidence that your cause is incredibly popular, then you can argue that your opinions should take precedence. At the moment, that evidence doesn't exist.

So just to clarify, until we somehow magically obtain this "Overwhelming evidence" that a bunch of dissatisfied, disconnected, MMORPG players are somehow supposed to obtain about a massive multi national game with millions of players, what do you suppose they should do about? Just shut up? Considering this whole thing is about satisfaction, and the only real way to determine that as to ask, how are we to obtain that evidence.

We are not game designers
We are not Marketing annalist
We do not have access to the game database

What evidence would make you happy? How do you expect us to get this evidence without providing a argument. Expecting feedback to come with conclusive evidence in a MMORPG is silly. MMORPGS run on feedback, that how the devs know how players react to things, players generally do not have the tools, or capability to come up with conclusive evidence. Do you just not want us to discuss possible ways of fixing the current situation, because that's a major part of giving feedback. If a player thinks WARs need to be nerfed into ground, that's their opinion and they have the right to both have and express that opinion, same goes for if a player thinks WAR needs more healing, both these player can and should express their desire for change.

Seriously you are acknowledging the strike is a good idea but do you just like.... not want people to talk about it or something? We think healer is in a bad spot now design wise, that's why this is happening, to not expect players to express their opinion about it, in a place created to express opinions, is insane. Expressing our desire for change in large numbers is one of the only way we can even attempt to provide evidence, what else do you want from us?

[Moonjava]

So just to clarify you until we somehow magically obtain this "Overwhelming evidence" that a bunch of dissatisfied, disconnect, MMORPG players are somehow supposed to obtain about a massive multi national game with millions of players, what do you suppose they should do about? Just shut up? Considering this whole thing is about satisfaction, and the only real way to determine that as to ask, how are we to obtain that evidence.

We are not game designers
We are not Marketing annalist
We do not have access to the game database

What evidence would make you happy? How do you expect us to get this evidence without providing a argument. Expecting feedback to come with conclusive evidence in a MMORPG is silly. MMORPGS run on feedback, that how the devs know how players react to things, players generally do not have the tools, or capability to come up with conclusive evidence. Do you just not want us to discuss possible ways of fixing the current situation, because that's a major part of giving feedback. If a player thinks WARs need to be nerfed into ground, that's their opinion and they have the right to both have and express that opinion, same goes for if a player thinks WAR needs more healing, both these player can and should express their desire for change.

Seriously you are acknowledging the strike is a good idea but do you just like.... not want people to talk about it or something? We think healer is in a bad spot now design wise, that's why this is happening, to not expect players to express their opinion about it, in a place created to express opinions, is insane. Expressing our desire for change in large numbers is one of the only way we can even attempt to provide evidence, what else do you want from us?

Copying and pasting the first and last sentences of the comment you quoted: "As I've said elsewhere, leaving feedback and organizing a "strike" to generate data SE can use to justify changes is perfectly fine. Great, even- probably no better way to go about getting them to make changes. ... If this strike goes as planned and you end up with overwhelming evidence that your cause is incredibly popular, then you can argue that your opinions should take precedence. At the moment, that evidence doesn't exist."