#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Rehayem]

Yeah, pretty much. Not my fault you make poor decisions in what job you play. You all can have more dps buttons, that's completely fine, but don't touch the other roles. This isn't a hard concept to grasp. You can have your cake and eat it too, you don't need to steal someone else's cake.

It will be very difficult for many to take your word or opinion at face value because of your dismissive attitude with "not my fault you make poor decisions in what job you play".

There's no error, fault or mistake in choosing what jobs to play, that's the entire purpose of a Final Fantasy game -- play all jobs you want on single character. The problem stems from SE's ineffective balancing of jobs -- all three roles in fact -- at the expense of the other. It does seem you're taking the opinions of others regarding balancing as offensive because it may or may not affect your job, but you have to remember ultimately this is just a game, no need for hostility.

If they do ever nerf WAR's healing abilities, your complaints should go straight to Xeno first, it was him who showed the media tour dungeon cleared first, this thread is just the after effect of it. I personally don't think they'll nerf tank sustain anytime soon, not until 8.0 with their so "promised" individuality patch.

[IDontPetLalas]

Yeah, pretty much. Not my fault you make poor decisions in what job you play. You all can have more dps buttons, that's completely fine, but don't touch the other roles. This isn't a hard concept to grasp. You can have your cake and eat it too, you don't need to steal someone else's cake.

Well, I would understand this position coming from a single-player game since clearly, you don't affect anyone else, and game designers are free to designer a job as close to immortality as they want. Why not allow someone to set it to "God" mode, in that case.

However, in a trinity based MMO, I would say that each job has certain boundaries, and I am much much aligned with what Ty has outlined. Sure, why why not allow a tank to have part of a healer's toolkit- but a a cost. Doesn't bother me. However, that tank should not be anywhere near as efficient nor as powerful as a healer for either self or party heals. Just as a tank shouldn't be restricted to just soaking up damage so that the group can survive, but can also have DPS skills- but not as significant as a DPS.

As you say, no role can "have their cake and eat it too". At this point, tanks are encroaching upon the healer's cake, we want to do more than look at leftover crumbs in some cases.

[PercibelTheren]

Yeah, pretty much. Not my fault you make poor decisions in what job you play. You all can have more dps buttons, that's completely fine, but don't touch the other roles. This isn't a hard concept to grasp. You can have your cake and eat it too, you don't need to steal someone else's cake.

Not really because the cake has been getting taken, slice by slice, by other roles, until there is barely any cake left.

[aiqa]

No. What part of "not at the expense of other roles" are you not understanding? Your ideas are terrible, come up with better ones that don't involve bringing down other roles just so you can be happy.

People have already explained multiple times why the choice is directly between giving every role (including healers) a place in all team content, and letting tanks (mostly WAR) keep their current level of self heals. Demanding different results isn't going to change that.

In my post (the one you replied to) is a list of reasons that explain why I've come to the conclusions tank heals will need to be changed. For a constructive conversation consider those reasons, and explain why you've come to a different conclusion.

[ForteNightshade]

Make Shake it Off cost 25 Beast Gauge. Make Bloodwhetting/Nascent Flash GCD actions.

See, this goes too far in the opposite direction. You've now made Shake It Off a button Warrior will never press. Furthermore, if they did go in that direction every tank mit would need the same restrictions. If Shake was penalized but Dark Missionary and Heart of Light weren't, you've all but guaranteed nobody is touching Warrior unless Shake just isn't necessary for the fight which defeats the entire point of upping healing requirements.

The same applies to Bloodwhetting. You can't have their mitigation suddenly be GCD unless it's a universal thing. Nascent Flash could function that way but it wouldn't really have much impact. The heal in single target scenarios isn't nearly as strong as people make it out to be.

[Manamaru]

-snip-

The way you and a number of others talk about tank self sustain is as if everybody and their grandmother only plays WAR and that every other tank gets the same favoritism that WAR does when it's clearly not the case. Extra damage options, sure, but I've seen some remarks about things like wanting to take away dps caster rezzes or trying to make tank role as a whole suffer because the devs are paralyzed in how to make all the healers seem unique to themselves. I would also add their reluctance to reintroduce dots after culling the whole swathe of dots doesn't help with the predicament when healers could probably be the ones benefiting from them; especially sage, the "DPS healer".

But instead this thread has how many pages now? Outside of the infighting or trolls, an outsider looking in would glance at this and see that as a bunch of unhappy healers that either want everything else to burn down, or that some unnamed self important players clearly have an unchecked ego.

Also, discussing how the 4 healers, outside of their job gauge, should have more of a unique identity brought back to them. One such thing of note that when TP was removed, so too were a number of additional support options (I.E. Mana Shift for dps casters being able to refill a healer's MP or another job, and that one AST card that restored TP). Most of the meta is surrounding around crit and damage, but what else would be an option for any of the healers? Haste? Something that refills a portion of another job's job gauge?

As for WAR, outside of being the Meteor poster boy job, I think the squenix dev team have a limited scope on what they think of WAR is as being the "barbarian" or "Me hit good me shrug off ouch" and you can see the consequence of it. At least one thought with WAR that could still fit that "Me hit good me shrug big ow" idea that squenix apparently has with it, is changing one of it's sustains into a stacked buff that blocks or intercepts incoming enemy damage up to a number of times. But something or some things that would still give WAR squenix's perceived identity of being that job that's reckless and keeps going

[ty_taurus]

The way you and a number of others talk about tank self sustain is as if everybody and their grandmother only plays WAR and that every other tank gets the same favoritism that WAR does when it's clearly not the case. Extra damage options, sure, but I've seen some remarks about things like wanting to take away dps caster rezzes or trying to make tank role as a whole suffer because the devs are paralyzed in how to make all the healers seem unique to themselves. I would also add their reluctance to reintroduce dots after culling the whole swathe of dots doesn't help with the predicament when healers could probably be the ones benefiting from them; especially sage, the "DPS healer".

On the contrary... I talk about the DPS aspects of healers all the time as well as different types of utility that can help further individualize each healer by what they bring to the team other than just a difference in play style. I also do not want to take raise spells away from caster DPS. I like that particularly because revival is not a consistently needed tool, but can potentially be needed in any battle. The only critique I really have of caster DPS raise is Red Mage's ability to cast it instantly every time whereas healers can't do that. Healers should still be the better choice to raise with, but casters can help when the healer dies, or needs help raising. That's like 90% completely fine in my book.

I'm just saying that if we are trying to reinforce a trinity system, we need to do so proportional to the content we are engaging in--all the content we are engaging in. Not just savage, not just dungeons, not just alliance raids, not just field ops... everything.

[WeakestZenosEnjoyer]

I think having ways to heal the party as a non-healer is a potentially interesting form of utility for helping healers with tight healing checks, and I have no problem with that conceptually. But because FFXIV is so afraid to deal damage to the party out of fear of making content too difficult for casual players, that extra healings goes from being a form of utility meant to help healers, to healing that overshadows healers in many environments.

I don't think sustain needs to be taken away from other jobs to resolve these issues, but rather, I think we should focus on making it most optimal to let the healers heal and save non-healer sustain for a last resort...

I agree that tank sustain as a concept isn't inherently problematic (personally I think Gunbreaker before Excog of Corundum is in a good spot) but healing at the cost of damage is tricky.

In high end content people will understand that losing damage is bad and likely has some form of body/DPS check anyway, but will Johnny Paladin in your leveling roulette understand that? After they've been conditioned to be the only player that matters will they fold or will they stubbornly drag out fights by trying to solo anyway over an egregious amount of time? If they go that direction I think a "reset vote" system could address these issues by allowing the downed to vote when more than half the party is down (3 or 5 respectively) with a simple majority to forcefully reset the fight, continuing on a tie if an even number of players are down.

[Len_]

I get the impression this guy bases his real life self worth on playing a broken braindead job in a video game so I dunno why the rest of us who realize this is all pretend should continue to engage with him. Apparently choosing to play WAR is a life decision we are all simple fools for not also making. Wild lmao