#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Mortex]

Just want to jump in and say thank you for the amount of entertainment reading this absolutely mental thread has brought me. 80% of y'all yelling haven't ever as much as touched an Ult or a Savage and take a Dawntrail dungeon cleared without a healer by 3 sweaty world racers as the be-all-and-end all metric for your little 'strike', huh? Just like that one extremely RNG reliant TOP clear without healers. Hmmm. No comment.
Please go ahead and see healers are still very much needed in this game once you go above the dungeons that are deliberately designed to be cleared by even the most casual 9-5 Andy with a full time job. You can't take them as a metric.

Anyways, thanks for the fast healer queues. This action is going nowhere and I'm really happy SE won't ever listen to the official forums.

I mean I did and I do find them piss boring as regen healer (shield has to be a bit more precise but that is mostly muscle memory) I healed week 1 p8 and it was piss boring. I actually heal more in low lvl dungeons then I heal in ultimates. I even say the 2 most easy roles for clearing top is smn and whm or in general any content.

In any content when you have a war that is over lvl 66 the war can solo the entire thing because raw intiution is busted even before bloodwhetting.

Also these world racer played like absolute monkeys and dragging abilities of the keyboard. Xenos even forgot decimate. And they finished this dungeons pretty easy with some minor fails.

You can convince yourself healers are needed when in reality 99 % of content in this game can be done without them. And we are only here to clean up the fails of people.

Like you can check my logs and see i did all ultimates as healer and never cared for optimization as healer cause it’s piss boring playing the role since shadowbringer.

Here my character for logs https://www.fflogs.com/character/eu/odin/rigor%20mortex

[Mortex]

Let's be honest. Even SE doesn't seem to care about the barrier/pure healer split anymore. They keep giving barriers to pure healers and raw healing to shielders. Come DT, that split will have become one of the most pointless distinctions this game ever made. I can't believe we lost the dual-sect AST for this nonsense...

Cause they have no idea what to do with them. So regen get shields and shields get regen. And this stupid change makes double shield even more busted because if you over mit any big hit anyway and take no dmg you have to heal but have the tools if needed for massive regen like sch and save have them now you can bet the raid tier will be again every aoe another hard mit check and it does get boring.

[Ayer2015]

At level 50, a WHM primarily uses GCD heals. And Lily heals were introduced to avoid the opportunity cost of GCD heals.

So again, using Lily heals would still have an opportunity cost where you lose DPS to heal. While you can choose to accept that cost, it remains an opportunity cost. Optimal DPS, which is the end all be all in FF, would mean using Lilies for direct damage. If you can't fit those proposed spells, you aren't performing your "job" according to the FF meta.

To get optimal DPS, you'd use Lily heals as little as possible and rely on your co-healer to keep everyone alive. This results in the WHM hardly healing at all, except for using Assize on cooldown (which often results in wasted heals since, unlike Lilies, it lacks flexibility in usage). Your only significant healing would come from longer cooldown OGCD abilities. These longer cooldown abilities are Asylum (90s cooldown) and Liturgy of the Bell (180s cooldown) for AoE healing, and Benediction (180s cooldown), Tetragrammaton (60s cooldown), and Divine Benison (30s cooldown) for single-target healing. Without Lily heals, WHM has very little OGCD AoE healing, which is only sufficient in fights with significant healing support from co-healers or tanks, or when incoming damage is trivial. These latter two are what people are trying to address in this thread.

Even with Lily heals, WHM has the lowest HPS in recent healing statistics on FFLogs for savage content. It doesn't need any further healing nerfs.

If you still disagree, please explain how these issues could be avoided. Do you believe the existing OGCD AoE heals are sufficient for a healer's kit? Asylum is a weak HoT, and Liturgy has a 3 minute cooldown. Without Lilies, you can't use Plenary Indulgence on OGCD heals, reducing AoE healing even further to a level far below what a WAR can do. Or do you think the FF community will stop demanding every last point of damage from players? If so, you'll need a far bigger plan than just a few spell additions.

You are acting like people are suggesting changes in a vacuum, exclusive to WHM. It was an example, of which I am sure people would like changes to the other healers as well.
Having the choice of using resources to either heal or damage gives the player the opportunity to manage their play themselves, rather than being systemically forced. Choice makes games more interesting generally.
If a player is so focused on optimal damage over their actual role, perhaps they should just play a dps based job. Hamstringing job design over people choosing to play poorly will just lead us back to where we are now....

[aiqa]

I mean, this comes down to encounter design. TOP, P8S and P12S aside, it's common to run into the issue where you overcap on lilies and just throw them into the air so you don't overcap. The cadence of damage (and mechanics overall) is so slow that, aside from a few moments of burst healing, there is nothing to use the lilies for.

They can change the direction of content design. Adding damage abilities to build blood lillies would almost certainly be locked in forever.

The lilies themselves when used on Rapture are not even that good unless your cohealer is competent (the raw healing output on Rapture is low). And if your cohealer is competent, well, you won't be needing more than one and Asylum/Liturgy/Temperance anyway.

Rapture is quite strong with Plenary Indulgence. And it's the only option for Plenary Indulgence that is ogcd ish.

I frequently find myself burning the lilies for movement and to make sure I have Misery for the 2 min burst.
If tank self-healing does get nerfed, then perhaps some of those can be used effectively as Solaces (especially if, some day, FF XIV remembers bosses can do more than 2 auto attacks a minute). Otherwise, it's still optimal to "heal nothing" to line up your Misery. I was just proposing a more exciting use for those lilies.

There is no way to balance dps with healing in FF, dps always win out until healing is so low you can't survive. So add a dps option for lillies and that wins 99% of the time. I am all for more fun, but this has to big downsides. If the devs want to add more dps spells for fun, they can do that without messing with the lilly mechanic.

I doubt a 150/300 potency gain per minute is unbalanceable. But I guess I agree with you on one thing- it sure would be nice if there was at least enough incoming damage to justify dropping a few Solaces/Raptures every 30s without it being worthless overhealing.

You suggested 150 to 200 potency per cast. Lillies build up at a rate of 1 per 20 seconds. So that is 450 to 600 potency per minute, which is quite significant. But sure you can just lower that 50 to 100 potency per cast to get to the 150 to 300 per minute.

I would judge that as follows: as long the damage is worth slotting the spell on your hotbar it will return WHM to avoiding healing.

[Galvuu]

They can change the direction of content design. Adding damage abilities to build blood lillies would almost certainly be locked in forever.
(...)
There is no way to balance dps with healing in FF, dps always win out until healing is so low you can't survive. So add a dps option for lillies and that wins 99% of the time. I am all for more fun, but this has to big downsides. If the devs want to add more dps spells for fun, they can do that without messing with the lilly mechanic.
(...)
You suggested 150 to 200 potency per cast. Lillies build up at a rate of 1 per 20 seconds. So that is 450 to 600 potency per minute, which is quite significant. But sure you can just lower that 50 to 100 potency per cast to get to the 150 to 300 per minute.

You're implicitly touching on one of the pain points by assuming WHMs would dump all their lilies on the damage option, and that the damage option would be optimal 9/10 times. I was (perhaps naively) assuming 1/2 per min would be required for healing.
I'm not blaming you, either- as far as healing is concerned, encounter design is so broken we, collectively, as a playerbase, have come to expect that most healing tools aren't necessary to begin with and are superfluous.
Of course, as you said, we're discussing bandaids- ideally, they'd change their encounter philosophy. And I hope they do, but I'm going to be honest, I'm losing faith in their ability to even attempt to do so.
I want to believe, but I'm becoming increasingly uneasy the more info drips out as we get closer to DT... I feel that the team has sat on this formula for so long that any creativity has gone stale. I don't even know if they can turn this around. But we might as well make some noise and get them riled up- maybe it does work to some extent!

[NanaWiloh]

Devs need to be asked this:
If tanks and dps can heal themsleves to full hp in a dungeon or raid? What purpose does a healer serve?

[Pip_Chick]

Just because I don't do the EX/Savage/ULT fights doesn't mean my opinion or voice doesn't matter. I am paying the same amount of money as any World First racer.
I am a casual player, but I enjoy a level of complexity. Which healers have none in the content I am most interested in? This is a problem no other Role in this game has.
Tanks have fun in all content, so do DPS. But when it comes to Healers all of a sudden only the world first hardcore players are allowed to have fun?

Healers should be fun at all levels of difficulty. I want to heal, that is why I like to play a healer in all MMOs with a Holy Trinity. I don't need a giant DPS rotation to have fun, just something else to do in the downtime while everyone is capped on heals and the boss is not doing any damage. SB SCH had Dots and pet management.
I would love to deploy Eos/Selene to aid a certain player who is struggling while I heal and apply DoTs to cheap away at the enemy's health bar.
Again I am a casual, I don't know about potencies or anything. I just know that Spamming Broil and Art of War when I have nothing to heal is not fun. I play healer because I want to heal, healing is inherently a stressful job since it is your job to watch over other players and ensure their survival, the stress coming from dealing with human error. If I wanted something stress-free, I would have chosen an easy DPS.

[AmiableApkallu]

Wait, that's still a thing? I haven't read much into it but since AST is getting like, 4 new barrier/mits and WHM's lv 100 ability is an aoe barrier, I assumed they officially abolished the 'pure/barrier' split already. It feels counterproductive to give "pure" healers that many defensives when that's what SCH and SGE are (allegedly) for.

WHM's new AoE barrier is a follow up to Temperance, which is quite possibly the most straightjacketed, stingiest way to give the job an AoE barrier. The job is still solidly on the "pure" side of the split. /two cents

[Niroken]

I hope they get rid of this pure/barrier split. Splitting into two roles didn't work for tanks, don't see it working here. It comes with a lot of unnecessary problems and stifles creativity. There is a lot they could do with healers if they let go of their templates.

[Aravell]

Just want to jump in and say thank you for the amount of entertainment reading this absolutely mental thread has brought me. 80% of y'all yelling haven't ever as much as touched an Ult or a Savage and take a Dawntrail dungeon cleared without a healer by 3 sweaty world racers as the be-all-and-end all metric for your little 'strike', huh?

I don't see why people use this argument so much. So what if people don't do hard content? It's precisely the casual content that's being hit hardest by this issue, it's so easy to drop the healer for casual dungeons.

Also, stop saying that only sweaty world racers can pull it off. Literally anyone can 1T3D dungeons as long as the tank has enough brain capacity to press their multitude of heals.