So, can we just ban damage meters already.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

My argument is that parses can make some players play badly and do incorrect things because they are overly focused on DPS.

I made the remark originally to explain why I prefer the status quo rather than having parsers be an official part of the game.

Are you arguing that parsers should be an official part of the game?

The thing is, parsers are usually only used in Savage/Ultimate and Savage/Ultimate is designed around maxing DPS. It's still a bit of hypocritical of SE to design content around it but not giving the players the tools to measure it. And as common as enrage-wipes are in this meta (still trying to finally beat E2Ss enrage myself..), I also laugh in the face of everyone telling "Healers don't need to DPS" or "Tank DPS is not that important".

[Ronduwil]

The thing is, parsers are usually only used in Savage/Ultimate and Savage/Ultimate is designed around maxing DPS. It's still a bit of hypocritical of SE to design content around it but not giving the players the tools to measure it. And as common as enrage-wipes are in this meta (still trying to finally beat E2Ss enrage myself..), I also laugh in the face of everyone telling "Healers don't need to DPS" or "Tank DPS is not that important".

Agreed. It's bad design. Enrage mechanics are lazy design, IMO. I prefer fights with flexible mechanics than can be mitigated in various ways. One such mechanic, for example, is a party-wide DoT that increases over time. You can either beat that by maximizing DPS or by optimizing heals. An effective mechanic I remember from WoW is an AoE attack whose damage was spread among everyone in a specific area. The idea was to assign players to zones so you'd always have a decent amount of players to soak the attack. Again, you can beat that by reducing the number of such attacks, you can beat it by being efficient with your zones, and you could beat it by having a tank solo-soak it with cool downs. I think that's far more exciting and just as challenging as a simple enrage.

[Granyala]

Agreed. It's bad design. Enrage mechanics are lazy design, IMO.

I don't think they are. You have to push DPS players somehow.
Would prefer the enrages not to be THAT strict and also I'd prefer soft enrages (adds overwhelm the raid, stacking debuffs, gradual speed up on mechanics etc) to "lul was just kidding until now, fun's over" instagib abilities.

[Enla]

I think Construct 7 is a perfect example of the necessity of enrage mechanics. That fight can take upwards of twenty minutes of pure torture if people aren't actually paying attention. I still remember when that raid first dropped and almost every run was like that - just one arduous grind where bad players got the carry while every rez-capable role was working their tail off to get people up. It's easier /now/ but christ on a crack an enrage timer would have made that fight so much more manageable. An enrage timer isn't just punishment for bad DPS. It's a chance to stop, reset, and think over what's going wrong in a fight.

[Andevom]

I think Construct 7 is a perfect example of the necessity of enrage mechanics. That fight can take upwards of twenty minutes of pure torture if people aren't actually paying attention. I still remember when that raid first dropped and almost every run was like that - just one arduous grind where bad players got the carry while every rez-capable role was working their tail off to get people up. It's easier /now/ but christ on a crack an enrage timer would have made that fight so much more manageable. An enrage timer isn't just punishment for bad DPS. It's a chance to stop, reset, and think over what's going wrong in a fight.

I disagree in that scenario. Enrage timer on that would've been frustrating. Think of how it'd be if you're three fights into your raid, and your group just can't get it done before enrage. Would you really want to drop and go through it all again? You've got 23 other players to worry about there, it's a totally different beast from 8 player content.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I disagree in that scenario. Enrage timer on that would've been frustrating. Think of how it'd be if you're three fights into your raid, and your group just can't get it done before enrage. Would you really want to drop and go through it all again? You've got 23 other players to worry about there, it's a totally different beast from 8 player content.

Well, if those 23 other people were forced to actually look up guides and get better the playerbase as a whole would benefit.

[HyoMinPark]

I disagree in that scenario. Enrage timer on that would've been frustrating. Think of how it'd be if you're three fights into your raid, and your group just can't get it done before enrage. Would you really want to drop and go through it all again? You've got 23 other players to worry about there, it's a totally different beast from 8 player content.

On the other hand, it's equally frustrating to be one of those 24 stuck in a 20-minute war of attrition because people aren't punished for repeated deaths and mechanical failures.

[Andevom]

On the other hand, it's equally frustrating to be one of those 24 stuck in a 20-minute war of attrition because people aren't punished for repeated deaths and mechanical failures.

I'd rather sit through the 20 minutes *once* than have to reset the fight over and over with a chance of us not being able to finish the raid. Not against enrage timers for the content they exist in, just wouldn't be enthusiastic about introducing them into this kind of content. DPS check phases exist in every one of the Ivalice raids, so the punishment for failing mechanics is already in place, just not as severe.

[Granyala]

I think Construct 7 [...] an enrage timer would have made that fight so much more manageable.

A moderately strict enrage time would have made that thing basically unkillable and would lead to tons of aborted runs and huge heaps of frustration.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

A moderately strict enrage time would have made that thing basically unkillable and would lead to tons of aborted runs and huge heaps of frustration.

"unkillable".... really?