5.0 Job change wishlist

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Hmm I wonder who has a better understanding of White Mage, Yoshi-P and the dev team who plays this way I've pointed out, or 4% of the player base who who raids with parsers then complains about healers being boring and complains that content is boring.

Why on earth would the developers ever listen to the raiders who aren't playing the content correctly in the first place, and use parser tools as a crutch? There is no way in hell that the developers can or even should listen to the people using the parsers, because what the parser users are asking for is for content to be nothing but DPS checks that you can just stand still to maximize dps with because your ego will be bruised if you don't get some high marks on a third party site using a parser that only guesses how HoT's and DoT's work to begin with. The parser also guesses how long combat is, thus very trivial things will have large differences.

Those 4% of players have a far better understanding than the developers who don't raid nor min/max to such a degree. Hence why good healers are able to perform their role while casting as few heals as possible. Intent matters little when gameplay functionality differs. If we played in the manner the dev team envisions, we could outright remove healers entirely from dungeon content. Trash mobs are so pitifully weak if you do single pulls, you simply don't need a healer, period.

Math and numbers do not lie. In fact, I can cite an example HyoMin and I did a few days ago. We did two Phantom Trains, one where we fully DPS'd and one where neither of us did anything except heal. In the latter, I had several Lilies yet my overall contribution to the group were 90% less than in the run where I dealt damage. Neither group were remotely in danger yet I was completely useless due to how low Normal mode content is tuned. I played "correctly," however the group would have benefited significantly more if I had been replaced by any DPS and they ran with only one healer. Apparently, healer DPS means nothing though...

Parsers don't guess the battle logs. They calculate everything in real time. Perhaps you would understand this if you bothered to hear the opposing side and not present yourself as some authority on a subject you know staggeringly little about.

"You don't even raid" = "do you even lift" for games. I play the normal raids, I play the 24-player alliance raids. I pass over the high end content because nobody is willing to play it without a parser crutch. To me, players using parsers are rubbish script kiddies who didn't earn their clear. They used inaccurate information they were not supposed to have to clear it, and then complain it's boring and make asinine demands to change the content.

Playing Ridorana Lighthouse was fun the first time because I was guaranteed at least one run where parsers were dead and nobody knows the mechanics, and players real skill shows through. 13 players will still alive, 21 players got the "Didn't Stop, Made it Pop" achievement, 19:27 remaining, finished at 1:48PM on 2018-05-22. The second time I played it a week later? Gee wow, cleared in half the time with only one wipe, on the boss that we didn't wipe on in the first day-one attempt. Parses started showing up at 2018-05-24 9:24 AM. I cleared everything that was new that I could before the parser users started sucking the fun out of everything.

Content which is all mind numbingly easy. This is why people care about Savage when it comes to job optimization and not the normal mode equivalent. In the latter, you can die twenty times and it have absolutely no impact because half the content is braindead. As noted above, if I did standard single pulls in dungeons, healers have literally no value. Your favorite job is completely worthless because I simply won't take enough damage. I reiterate my aforementioned example of Phantom Train. When I played the Kisai way, focusing on virtually no DPS and spamming Cure II, I contributed a meager 10% compared to my previous run where I properly balanced healing and DPSing. I could have easily AFK'd, made a coffee and let them kill it. It would have changed nothing. I was that useless.

... if I applied this asinine logic to say, computer science. By your standards, my having no idea what I'm doing is a demonstration of skill. And when I learn the flow of things after a week, I've "sucked the fun of it."

Skill is someone gradually improving, which can only be accomplished with visible information. Without parsers, someone can spam Full Thrust combos without ever realizing doing so severely impacts their damage, thus they cannot improve without the information only theorycrafters provide. And how do theorycrafters obtain such valauble datat? Parsers. You are so utterly blinded by your seething hatred for the raid community you have lost any semblance of a rational thought. You accuse raiders of sucking out the fun and spreading toxicity yet your astounding levels of arrogance have completely derailed a thread that was never about parsers. So who is actually causing drama here?

[KisaiTenshi]

Those 4% of players have a far better understanding than the developers who don't raid nor min/max to such a degree. Hence why good healers are able to perform their role while casting as few heals as possible. Intent matters little when gameplay functionality differs. If we played in the manner the dev team envisions, we could outright remove healers entirely from dungeon content. Trash mobs are so pitifully weak if you do single pulls, you simply don't need a healer, period.

Did you even read that first sentence. Who knows how the game works? The dev's do. Do the devs QA everything for every possible meta possible ? No. Not unless you want content spaced 2 years apart. If we played like how the dev's intended, casting the HoT's would rip enmity from the tank every single time if not followed up by Lucid Dreaming. Instead the healer may as well not even exist since all the easy content can pretty much be handled by the tank alone.

Math and numbers do not lie. In fact, I can cite an example HyoMin and I did a few days ago. We did two Phantom Trains, one where we fully DPS'd and one where neither of us did anything except heal. In the latter, I had several Lilies yet my overall contribution to the group were 90% less than in the run where I dealt damage. Neither group were remotely in danger yet I was completely useless due to how low Normal mode content is tuned. I played "correctly," however the group would have benefited significantly more if I had been replaced by any DPS and they ran with only one healer. Apparently, healer DPS means nothing though...

You are also overgeared for the content in normal mode.

Parsers don't guess the battle logs. They calculate everything in real time. Perhaps you would understand this if you bothered to hear the opposing side and not present yourself as some authority on a subject you know staggeringly little about.

Please go read the developer of the ACT plugin's reddit posts and forum posts, you will find out just how inaccurate the thing is. Pieces of the source code to it are also scattered across various github's. You know what destroys the accuracy of it the most? Having anything else running (Eg youtube, netflix, spotify, etc.) Also one of the overlays is just a full blown web browser overlay, so no wonder it kills low-spec machines.

Content which is all mind numbingly easy. This is why people care about Savage when it comes to job optimization and not the normal mode equivalent. In the latter, you can die twenty times and it have absolutely no impact because half the content is braindead. As noted above, if I did standard single pulls in dungeons, healers have literally no value. Your favorite job is completely worthless because I simply won't take enough damage. I reiterate my aforementioned example of Phantom Train. When I played the Kisai way, focusing on virtually no DPS and spamming Cure II, I contributed a meager 10% compared to my previous run where I properly balanced healing and DPSing. I could have easily AFK'd, made a coffee and let them kill it. It would have changed nothing. I was that useless.

... if I applied this asinine logic to say, computer science. By your standards, my having no idea what I'm doing is a demonstration of skill. And when I learn the flow of things after a week, I've "sucked the fun of it."

Skill is someone gradually improving, which can only be accomplished with visible information. Without parsers, someone can spam Full Thrust combos without ever realizing doing so severely impacts their damage, thus they cannot improve without the information only theorycrafters provide. And how do theorycrafters obtain such valauble datat? Parsers. You are so utterly blinded by your seething hatred for the raid community you have lost any semblance of a rational thought. You accuse raiders of sucking out the fun and spreading toxicity yet your astounding levels of arrogance have completely derailed a thread that was never about parsers. So who is actually causing drama here?

Without parsers, people would figure out the best rotation and such by trial-and-error. The drama starters are the people who aren't hiding the fact that they are parsing. You're trying to justify data-mining as if it was ever a good thing. I like knowing how things work, but not before I play it. A small portion of the playerbase is responsible for "the MSQ cutscenes" incident, and a small portion of the player base is responsible for the Koike incident. A small portion of players is what ruins things for everyone because they can't just be nice.

Now look at all the snark in this thread. This could have all ended with one post, but because certain forum users must get their burns in, it's now derailed the thread.

Then what's the point of them?

Actually, I am going to take issue with you on SCH gauge not helping DPS, because that HoT from Fey Union is AMAZING for DPSing. Does it directly affect my DPS? No, but it gives me windows where I can. I could Adlo-Excog-Fey Union and DPS for a long while before I even have to think about healing, and if I have Aetherflow to spare, I can last even longer.

SCH is not my main healer, so I'll not comment about "the right meta" for the Scholar, because I'll only play it for Alliance Raids and MSQ roulette. The problem with the lilies is that people think they are some how losing out on some bonus, that really none of the healers have. It's not a limit break bar.

I posted this a few pages back in an edit:
https://youtu.be/JQSyPv45FrY

This is what the Lilies actually do. If you crit, it shaves 5 seconds off the recast... provided that you've used it. So if you're not using it, Secret of the Lily II, does nothing. What might not be visible (I did a solo run trying to mouse over the 4 abilities to show the cooldown changes) is that Assize CD is at 48 seconds when the third lily comes up, the same cure that did the crit. So while it's on oCD it counts down 13, 12, 11, crit, 5,4,3,2,1. So these are two separate oCD savings. So if you aren't using Asylum and Assize frequently, then a crit from a Cure isn't going to do anything for the cooldown. And if you wait till you have 3 lilies to use just to save 12 seconds on the oCD, that's also silly.

And yes it's a 20% proc, so it's not something you should fish for. If you get a lot of crits, then it's more useful, but that goes into what's really a BiS build and that I don't have an opinion on.

[Ilenya]

Now look at all the snark in this thread. This could have all ended with one post, but because certain forum users must get their burns in, it's now derailed the thread.

Can I just point something out? Nowhere in the first comment was Lilies and DPS mentioned. You opened that can of worms. Someone was of the opinion that lilies are useless and should be changed in 5.0, without anything else mentioned, and you took it as a reason to comment on DPSing.

WHM: Scrap and/or rework the Lily system. Give us some more utility abilities.

Make WHM lilies not utterly useless.

Those are the only two Lily mentions before you talked about WHM Lilies and DPSing.

[KisaiTenshi]

Those are the only two Lily mentions before you talked about WHM Lilies and DPSing.

The second person was the one who kicked the hornet's nest.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...quc/?context=1

This post says otherwise. And you are flat out wrong regarding ACT's impact with things running in the background. I frequently have thirty tabs open and/or have Twitch playing while I run content. The numbers have never changed. Regardless, logs are adjusted accordingly when uploaded to account for any discrepancies. Of course, all knowing Kisai understands parsers better than the actual developers and raiders.

Because it doesn't read the battle log, at all. You know that or you wouldn't be trying to keep portraying it as something harmless.

Fixed a problem with network packet parsing that delayed some procs from being logged by up to two seconds, and missed a handful of boss buffs/debuffs.

ACT's FFXIV plugin reads the game client memory and reads network packets. ALL packets. The author even made a point of saying that streaming video will make the plugin inaccurate because the plugin can't tell the games data from anything else you're doing. The high performance pcap mode only exists after March 27th of this year.

Added a BETA option for high-performance network filtering, where the game's server IP is used by the socket/winpcap layer to filter traffic before it even is received by the plugin. This has been tested against hundreds of mbps of traffic with no data loss. It is left as BETA for now, but will likely become the default in a few weeks.

Oh and let's not forget that the plugin developer is actually helping data miners try discover ways of making it more accurate.

Added a new packet type to the log file - 33 - which may help with detecting combat begin / end notifications
Added new columns "DoTAmtLowByte", "DoTCritLowByte" for theorycrafters on simulated DoT ticks and also on DoT debuffs when they land

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Because it doesn't read the battle log, at all. You know that or you wouldn't be trying to keep portraying it as something harmless.

Except it does. If you utilize triggers but turn off NPC announcement text chat or battle log data, they stop working. Regardless, it is entirely harmless. You have yet to prove otherwise beyond your hilariously bias opinion. Summoner DoTs had an issue when Stormblood launched, but ACT hasn't been inaccurate.

ACT's FFXIV plugin reads the game client memory and reads network packets. ALL packets. The author even made a point of saying that streaming video will make the plugin inaccurate because the plugin can't tell the games data from anything else you're doing. The high performance pcap mode only exists after March 27th of this year.

Citation needed.

Please link this video because I have personally ran Twitch without it causing any issues. How do I know? My static mates have the precise numbers I do, or very minor variation which FFlogs accounts for.

[KisaiTenshi]

Except it does. If you utilize triggers but turn off NPC announcement text chat or battle log data, they stop working. Regardless, it is entirely harmless. You have yet to prove otherwise beyond your hilariously bias opinion. Summoner DoTs had an issue when Stormblood launched, but ACT hasn't been inaccurate.



Citation needed.

Please link this video because I have personally ran Twitch without it causing any issues. How do I know? My static mates have the precise numbers I do, or very minor variation which FFlogs accounts for.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ne_low_anyone/

Also, I'm sorry, you don't get that. The thread is "Things we want changed for jobs in 5.0" Saying "Change useless Lilies" is legitimate, eve if your opinion doesn't match with theirs.

And that is why I initially said there was nothing wrong with it. Do you really want a gauge that you don't get to use Assize, Asylum, Tetra and Divine Benison at all unless you use cure? Because that's what we're going to get if you ask them to make it into a limit break button.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ne_low_anyone/

... did you conveniently ignore Bokchoy's "Solution" section? One click and he no longer had any issues. Further down, he even cites this only became an issue recently. You proudly claimed ACT was widely inaccurate yet this link demonstrates precisely the opposite, albeit once a solution to the problem caused by an update was found. I'll you've shown is ACT can mess up but that is true of virtually every program.

[Ilenya]

And that is why I initially said there was nothing wrong with it. Do you really want a gauge that you don't get to use Assize, Asylum, Tetra and Divine Benison at all unless you use cure? Because that's what we're going to get if you ask them to make it into a limit break button.

No no no, you said that it was fine, then complained people wanted it for DPS, got information on Bard's gauge wrong, still haven't explained why you want to have 3 stacks at all times on a WHM, and commented that a TANK gets a boost while DPSing in Sword Oath, which kinda goes against your comments about "Playing jobs a certain way"

Honestly, if you had left it at the first part of your first post in regards to Lilies, and skipped to your suggestions, most of this conversation probably either wouldn't have happened, or you would have a leg to stand on in regards to saying others are picking the fights.

[IttyBitty]

Do you really want a gauge that you don't get to use Assize, Asylum, Tetra and Divine Benison at all unless you use cure? Because that's what we're going to get if you ask them to make it into a limit break button.

This is ridiculous conjecture and you know it.

[MoroMurasaki]

And that is why I initially said there was nothing wrong with it. Do you really want a gauge that you don't get to use Assize, Asylum, Tetra and Divine Benison at all unless you use cure? Because that's what we're going to get if you ask them to make it into a limit break button.

Would you elabotate? I don't understand what you mean by not getting to use those skills or "make it into a limit break button".

The only skill that's ever been locked behind a lily was DB and SE fixed that up when people en masse complained they needed a lily which they almost never had.

A friend of mine healed Swallow's Compass the other day. I was on RDM. He never got a lily, not one. Tank was doing normal double pulls but stayed in Shield Oath. We all performed mechanics and killed things and never needed a cure/cure II. That's why the lily gague is useless to people - it literally saw no use. If you can show me another job performing well with their gague turned off I would be surprised.