#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[flowerkatie]

Since you are someone who is by their own confession, new to the forums, once again- this thread is about healer job designs- not derailing threads over attacking other posters . So if you're going to use judgemental language like "complete nonsense" and "terrible" , which allude principally to discussions in the healer forum over several years - at least try to back them up, because I know I have over the years, whereas I haven't seen you do so.

So if you can't find them they're in https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...9-Healer-Roles Enjoy

Feeling personally attacked because someone believes your view-point is nonsense is entirely a you issue, you tried to invalidate the comments of a poster and when called out for doing so and that posters original point defended by myself — its somehow an attack. Despite the fact I'm simply responding to points raised. Most of the proposed suggestions are terrible and you did not reference any of these in your original response to Striker nor any response following, neither is anybody going to dig through your previous posts to find those despite that being something you like doing.

You made a nonsensical point, that was pointed out and you responded to them by saying their post was "trying to score cheap points", you got criticism on the fact that their response was valid and then you say that response is "garbled and jumbled, misquoted trainwreck" and then proceed to make statements like "So if you're going to use judgemental language like [...]". The epitome of the fact that experience makes the suggestions no more valid than it proves that person to be any good at the role they're suggesting to improve.

The problem with your line of thinking is the fact that a lot of people in a similar vein to striker are always saying “don’t complain offer solutions” then when solutions are also offered they are randomly deemed not good enough

Yet, there have been solutions I've agreed with as well as complaints. It doesn't mean the majority of them aren't terrible.

[IDontPetLalas]

Feeling personally attacked because someone believes your view-point is nonsense is entirely a you issue, you tried to invalidate the comments of a poster and when called out for doing so and that posters original point defended by myself — its somehow an attack. Despite the fact I'm simply responding to points raised. Most of the proposed suggestions are terrible and you did not reference any of these in your original response to Striker nor any response following, neither is anybody going to dig through your previous posts to find those despite that being something you like doing.

You made a nonsensical point, that was pointed out and you responded to them by saying their post was "trying to score cheap points", you got criticism on the fact that their response was valid and then you say that response is "garbled and jumbled, misquoted trainwreck" and then proceed to make statements like "So if you're going to use judgemental language like [...]". The epitome of the fact that experience makes the suggestions no more valid than it proves that person to be any good at the role they're suggesting to improve.


Yet, there have been solutions I've agreed with as well as complaints. It doesn't mean the majority of them aren't terrible.

So, let's get this straight, since, as I said, you're quite new to the forums, and I haven't seen what your viewpoint is to date - which previous suggestions did you consider to be terrible? Since that is aligned with the general subject of this thread. Can you state that clearly?

[flowerkatie]

So, let's get this straight, since, as I said, you're quite new to the forums, and I haven't seen what your viewpoint is to date - which previous suggestions did you consider to be terrible? Since that is aligned with the general subject of this thread. Can you state that clearly?

Square has been provided with extensive and detailed suggestions from not one, but multiple healers with years of experience.

You started this conversation referring to "extensive" and "detailed" suggestions and in that response and every response since, you've not provided a single link or said which suggestions you consider to be "extensive".

A large majority of these suggestions believe that part of the issue in healers is that their Damage rotation is not engaging, they believe that because most of our time is spent doing damage it should be engaging to do so. Yet, these same individuals admit that damage is a "filler" to healing. The real issue is that healing is simply oversaturated, in easy content the damage does not justify the healing we have and in difficult content we're given two healers where one could suffice meaning that almost all healers who are worth their salt will be spending all GCD on damage and oGCD on healing. The solution isn't to continue spending all GCD's on damage but in a more engaging way, it is to actually make healing required.

Now, please — I doubt your next response will reference any of these 'detailed' and 'extensive' suggestions but I hope you prove me wrong and actually give us something to discuss.

[Supersnow845]

You started this conversation referring to "extensive" and "detailed" suggestions and in that response and every response since, you've not provided a single link or said which suggestions you consider to be "extensive".

A large majority of these suggestions believe that part of the issue in healers is that their Damage rotation is not engaging, they believe that because most of our time is spent doing damage it should be engaging to do so. Yet, these same individuals admit that damage is a "filler" to healing. The real issue is that healing is simply oversaturated, in easy content the damage does not justify the healing we have and in difficult content we're given two healers where one could suffice meaning that almost all healers who are worth their salt will be spending all GCD on damage and oGCD on healing. The solution isn't to continue spending all GCD's on damage but in a more engaging way, it is to actually make healing required.

Now, please — I doubt your next response will reference any of these 'detailed' and 'extensive' suggestions but I hope you prove me wrong and actually give us something to discuss.

I mean you are unhappy with responses because you have unilaterally decided what’s important to fix healers and then haven’t factored in the fact we’ve done this song and dance before

You say “the problem isn’t the damage rotation it’s the fact we need to heal in a more engaging way” but there is plenty of people who won’t support any change that forces greater reliance on the healer, it’s why a lot of people ask for better damage rotation

[flowerkatie]

I mean you are unhappy with responses because you have unilaterally decided what’s important to fix healers and then haven’t factored in the fact we’ve done this song and dance before

You say “the problem isn’t the damage rotation it’s the fact we need to heal in a more engaging way” but there is plenty of people who won’t support any change that forces greater reliance on the healer, it’s why a lot of people ask for better damage rotation

Wrong assumptions, I've already had two people respond to me the argument something similar to "We've tried to ask for what you want, but they told us to do Ultimate's, so now we're asking for this". So yes, I have factored in that this discussion has been going on for a long while, I have also not decided what is important to fix. I simply disagree with some of the fixes proposed. I don't see your point.

Edit: Not only that, the whole point of "but there is plenty of people who won’t support any change that forces greater reliance on the healer, it’s why a lot of people ask for better damage rotation" is just confusing to me, there are also plenty of people who wont support the change of a better damage rotation. There are a lot of individuals who think that healers shouldn't even have to do damage. So you're just bouncing from one point that is mixed to another that is (maybe slightly?) less mixed but still mixed.

[Supersnow845]

Wrong assumptions, I've already had two people respond to me the argument something similar to "We've tried to ask for what you want, but they told us to do Ultimate's, so now we're asking for this". So yes, I have factored in that this discussion has been going on for a long while, I have also not decided what is important to fix. I simply disagree with some of the fixes proposed. I don't see your point.

You literally said in the post I quoted “the solution isn’t to continue to spend all GCD’s on damage but in a more engaging way, it is to make healing actually required”. That is a direct quote from you

So you have decided your “fix” to healers is to make the healing side more engaging and more necessary in normal content. On its own it’s not a bad answer to the problems we face. However as someone who has just joined the forums you have to understand that non healers don’t like being reliant on healers. 9/10 non healer mains are totally happy to die to the first mechanic of the boss and watch the WAR solo the boss from 95% HP.

If you have two opposing ways to fix a class and only one non healer mains are liable to support that’s the one I’m going to put my money behind. I also want more engaging healing but first and foremost I simply want the classes fixed to a reasonable level

If you are so confident in your assessment that most of the current ideas are terrible then why don’t you provide some of your own. What else do you physically want us to do, we say we don’t like the healers we get told to offer solutions, we do and get told they are garbage, we abandon the role and get called out on that as well

If your entire point is “your solutions are garbage no I will not elaborate or actually add to the discussion” I have no idea what you hope to achieve

[flowerkatie]

So you have decided your “fix” to healers is to make the healing side more engaging and more necessary in normal content.

My post was a brief response towards a bigger discussion and doesn't serve as "this will fix everything", neither was that how it was supposed to be portrayed.

If your entire point is “your solutions are garbage no I will not elaborate or actually add to the discussion” I have no idea what you hope to achieve

My prior two posts have both elaborated and added to the discussion, so wrong, again.

If you have two opposing ways to fix a class and only one non healer mains are liable to support that’s the one I’m going to put my money behind. I also want more engaging healing but first and foremost I simply want the classes fixed to a reasonable level
If you are so confident in your assessment that most of the current ideas are terrible then why don’t you provide some of your own. What else do you physically want us to do, we say we don’t like the healers we get told to offer solutions, we do and get told they are garbage, we abandon the role and get called out on that as well

Ah yes, lets go with the fix of the non healer mains. You say that and seriously wonder why I'm disagreeing with these 'experienced' healers, lmao. I haven't called you out on abandoning the role either, I don't care what you do in your free time or what role you play. I've also provided an opening to my suggestion which you've then ignored and said that I wont elaborate.

Reading is hard, I suppose.

[IDontPetLalas]

You started this conversation referring to "extensive" and "detailed" suggestions and in that response and every response since, you've not provided a single link or said which suggestions you consider to be "extensive".

A large majority of these suggestions believe that part of the issue in healers is that their Damage rotation is not engaging, they believe that because most of our time is spent doing damage it should be engaging to do so. Yet, these same individuals admit that damage is a "filler" to healing. The real issue is that healing is simply oversaturated, in easy content the damage does not justify the healing we have and in difficult content we're given two healers where one could suffice meaning that almost all healers who are worth their salt will be spending all GCD on damage and oGCD on healing. The solution isn't to continue spending all GCD's on damage but in a more engaging way, it is to actually make healing required.

Now, please — I doubt your next response will reference any of these 'detailed' and 'extensive' suggestions but I hope you prove me wrong and actually give us something to discuss.

First of all, thank you now for providing your feedback. I would state your remarks have been covered in much more detail in literally hundreds of posts, and I did in fact post a link to the specific sub-forum. Try checking the previous page again.

I (and many other) healers participated in those discussions for years. I have every confidence that you can find those threads if you are so interested, and a Google search would also likely pull up at least one in which we exceeded 100 pages. Snow might recall that one. However, I would say the onus is now on you.

[Supersnow845]

My post was a brief response towards a bigger discussion and doesn't serve as "this will fix everything", neither was that how it was supposed to be portrayed.


My prior two posts have both elaborated and added to the discussion, so wrong, again.


Ah yes, lets go with the fix of the non healer mains. You say that and seriously wonder why I'm disagreeing with these 'experienced' healers, lmao. I haven't called you out on abandoning the role either, I don't care what you do in your free time or what role you play. I've also provided an opening to my suggestion which you've then ignored and said that I wont elaborate.

Reading is hard, I suppose.

If your point isn’t meant to be taken as an absolute then don’t write it as an absolute, pretty standard fare on writing there. Like I said I don’t disagree with the idea healing should be made more engaging but I also want damage to be more engaging. This isn’t asking for a solution that benefits non healer mains at the expense of healer mains, it’s saying when healer mains are asking for both and square doesn’t like giving healers responsibility we are better off asking for the damage option. And again if you aren’t making a definitive statement about saying “fix healing not DPS” then why do you oppose fixing the DPS side so heavily. You seem to trying to play both side while specifically only actually taking one side. If you support fixing healing then just say that, few people will oppose you on the concept the only blowback you’ll likely get here is people saying “yeah we tried asking for that and they told us to go away” but we don’t disagree with you

I also didn’t say you called us out I’m saying that as a general term, again there is a strong element here if you entering the forums this month and going “you stupid idiots why didn’t you just do x” and then you won’t actually acknowledge we’ve done x multiple times and it doesn’t work. Not in a rude way but your ideas on how we should approach this argument aren’t novel but you act like they are. Saying “your ideas are bad fix healing” really isn’t adding to the discussion, we know normal content healing is bloated, we know we don’t need two healers, we passed this discussion point 6 years ago, again it’s a problem of you acting like your surface level analysis is novel, your edit which just reiterated my point isn’t really either. Like I said if you have ideas just throw them out there rather than this weird policing of other people’s ideas and acting like we haven’t tried solutions right in front of our face

[flowerkatie]

and I did in fact post a link to the specific sub-forum.

The majority of posts in this sub-forum are neither detailed or extensive and they swing from multiple sides of the debate, some are just complaints about cosmetics. The original post you responded to states "I'm OK with any solution." and your response was that any solution isn't fine, there are detailed and extensive solutions that are (by implication) fine. Linking an entire forum section that has no continuity between suggestions doesn't serve as backing your point up.

However, at this point I'm not surprised you didn't reference anything but ask me to.