#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Falkyron]

Except in this case Falkyron: You are ALWAYS better off taking a Red Player than a Green one. Where is the scenario where you want the healer but no tank? Or a healer and tank but no DPS? You're telling me that the situation is exceptionally liimited and thus we're all bitching about a technicality...but there is no correlary to the other jobs. If 100% of the time it's good to take a Blue player and 100% of the time it's good to take a Red player and 95% of the time it's good to take a green player there's STILL a problem.

You can clear the kind of dungeon he did with any one of the roles not being present. It's not unique to healers. It will make the task harder in any case of anybody missing, that's all. You're being disingenuous pretending that the role being unnecessary to complete the dungeon is unique to healers. Some fights you need no tanks, some are purely mechanics like usable turrets so DPS doesn't matter. A lot of content you can clear with 5 DPS, 5 healers, or 5 tanks in your party.
Basically any simple dungeon like the one he did, you can clear with either a tank or healer missing. I know this because I clear dungeons where tanks disconnect all the time, with 2 DPS and myself healing. I clear dungeons where a DPS disconnects all the time, with the damage lacking.

The irony of your statement is that in almost every case, you need either one healer or one tank to 'get by'. There are so few cases where 5 DPS can clear without hating their lives and struggling. The deeper irony is that not all DPS can damage or tank, but all tanks or healers can damage. Of all the roles, DPS is MOST replaceable. You will just end fights more slowly. Every healer here who's done even a moderate amount of dungeons should agree that we see fumbling DPS all the time who don't even out-DPS a Scholar. Even if said replaced DPS is an optimal player, replacing a DPS with a tank will slow completion down by about 8%, and with a healer, it will slow completion speed down by about 12%. However, you will also be the safest of safe runs.

You're also being unreasonable when pretending that the healer not being present is doable for most parties. Most DPS players take damage in dungeons. It's rare to be in a party where both DPS only take unavoidable damage and leverage Blood Bath / Second Wind to full potential. The typical DPS players will die without a healer, and the run will flop about like a dying fish as a result. Most dungeons I take part in (even at level cap) feature my healer propping up the DPS with most of my weaves, NOT the tank, and that's just fine. If tanks don't wall-to-wall every pulls and keep themselves alive, I'm quite happy for them to have that agency over their own survival.

[Silver-Strider]

Just use your tools. That's why you have them.

The game's design is antithetical to using my tools. Pre-nerfed P8S is an example of this because groups still couldn't clear even if they had 0 deaths the entire run. There was a very narrow margin to which you could play it safe and use skills like Medica 2 because that missed Glare cast could literally be the difference between a clear or a wipe. On the opposite end of the spectrum, casual content has so little oncoming damage that Medica 2 is still not needed because passive HP Regen as well as healer's over bloated oGCD toolkits trivialize them by themselves, before accounting for party mitigation tools. Are there still instances in which Medica 2 can be utilized in? Absolutely since any mechanic that throws in a Heal to full mechanic could greatly benefit from its inclusion but those mechanics are few and far between and even mutlti-hit mechanics have a reduced need of Medica 2 due to the inclusion of Liturgy in our toolkits.

This is one of the major points of the strike.

[Falkyron]

Gonna post this again. Tanks suffer from the same "unnecessary" existence as healers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4O4JGCC0g4

It's a leveling dungeon. It's not an extreme, it's not savage, it's not a criterion dungeon, it's the peak of casual content. You're over-fixating.

They're not wrong. I've healed many dungeons where the tank DC'd and we just 2 DPS + 1 Healer cleared, sometimes from start to finish, and I've certainly had dungeons finish with us being down a DPS. Getting through a dungeon with no healer is not specific to healers; a basic story dungeon like the one they completed is absolutely doable with any role missing.

Healers acting like it being doable without them is sacrilege are being way too extra right now.

[ty_taurus]

They're not wrong. I've healed many dungeons where the tank DC'd and we just 2 DPS + 1 Healer cleared, sometimes from start to finish, and I've certainly had dungeons finish with us being down a DPS. Getting through a dungeon with no healer is not specific to healers; a basic story dungeon like the one they completed is absolutely doable with any role missing.

Healers acting like it being doable without them is sacrilege are being way too extra right now.

The dungeon aspect is not the main issue. It's just the insult added to the injury, which is not that it's possible to do it without healers, but that's it's optimal to. While a dungeon can be cleared without any specific role, no comp is faster than 1 tank / 3 DPS. But again, that's not the main issue being addressed. It's that healing has been unfun to play for multiple expansions now. We almost never heal in most content, and in harder content, how much we heal declines rapidly as the fight is learned. We also have no DPS gameplay to make all that time we aren't healing fun. All we're left with is Glare spam, which many consider to be the most miserable job experience in the game.

[PopiPipapo]

this is so funny

[Falkyron]

I disagree that it's optimal since a majority of DPS players take damage and die without a healer, which would slow dungeon clears down to a crawl.

Keep in mind that I'm on your side about other points made. I'm just trying to stress that choosing 'You can get through some story dungeons without a healer' is NOT an effective rallying cry. You think tanks are a thinly-played role now? Take away their agency to keep themselves alive in basic casual dungeons and you will reap the consequences.

Also, a lot of you aren't doing your cause any favors. For example: I've seen a couple of posts of people complaining that Summoners have Physik. Baffling.

[ASkellington]

They're not wrong. I've healed many dungeons where the tank DC'd and we just 2 DPS + 1 Healer cleared, sometimes from start to finish, and I've certainly had dungeons finish with us being down a DPS. Getting through a dungeon with no healer is not specific to healers; a basic story dungeon like the one they completed is absolutely doable with any role missing.

Healers acting like it being doable without them is sacrilege are being way too extra right now.

Things we've complained about:

• Tanks being able to solo a boss from 85%+ health. Is it ineffecient? Yes. Is it long and tedious? Yes. Can it be done? Also yes. The point is, we believe it shouldn't be. There's a line between being able to be good enough to solo the boss on your own when your healer has died at about 20% and then being able to do so at ease (with the possible exception of DRK) when the boss has 50%+ health.
  
• Savage being cleared without healers week one. Its one of the hardest contents in the game and it should be engaging for all roles. If healerscan be subsituted by a dps and a tank that means outgoing damage is too low and needs to be increased.
  
• Ultimate should NOT be the only form of content where a healer can have fun doing their primary job if they're good at it. There is literally an entire thread about how YoshiP's "Go Play Ultimate" excuse isn't a good one. Healers should be engaging and fun at ALL levels of content, for ALL skill levels. Not just the highest one because people who know how to play their jobs got good.

It isn't JUST because you can clear dungeons without healers.

[KageTokage]

The dungeon aspect is not the main issue. It's just the insult added to the injury, which is not that it's possible to do it without healers, but that's it's optimal to. While a dungeon can be cleared without any specific role, no comp is faster than 1 tank / 3 DPS. But again, that's not the main issue being addressed. It's that healing has been unfun to play for multiple expansions now. We almost never heal in most content, and in harder content, how much we heal declines rapidly as the fight is learned. We also have no DPS gameplay to make all that time we aren't healing fun. All we're left with is Glare spam, which many consider to be the most miserable job experience in the game.

Meanwhile the WHM job designer is probably thinking making Presence of Mind buff Glare temporarily is revolutionary job design.

[Kayokane]

The game's design is antithetical to using my tools. Pre-nerfed P8S is an example of this because groups still couldn't clear even if they had 0 deaths the entire run. There was a very narrow margin to which you could play it save and use skills like Medica 2 because that missed Glare cast could literally be the difference between a clear or a wipe. On the opposite end of the spectrum, casual content has so little oncoming damage that Medica 2 is still not needed because passive HP Regen as well as healer's over bloated oGCD toolkits trivialize them by themselves, before accounting for party mitigation tools. Are there still instances in which Medica 2 can be utilized in? Absolutely since any mechanic that throws in a Heal to full mechanic could greatly benefit from its inclusion but those mechanics are few and far between and even mutlti-hit mechanics have a reduced need of Medica 2 due to the inclusion of Liturgy in our toolkits.

This is one of the major points of the strike.

So, yes, use the tool that you determine is best for the situation, that's the basic summation of this. Although, I don't recall WHMs being the issue in P8S pre-nerf... wasn't it WAR or PLD since at the time they were significantly weaker than DRK and GNB. I'm sure it wouldn't really effect the dropped glare = death in that specific instant... Can't really comment much on that my P8Sp1 clear was post-nerf.

[Rolder50]

I disagree that it's optimal since a majority of DPS players take damage and die without a healer, which would slow dungeon clears down to a crawl.

Keep in mind that I'm on your side about other points made. I'm just trying to stress that choosing 'You can get through some story dungeons without a healer' is NOT an effective rallying cry. You think tanks are a thinly-played role now? Take away their agency to keep themselves alive in basic casual dungeons and you will reap the consequences.

Also, a lot of you aren't doing your cause any favors. For example: I've seen a couple of posts of people complaining that Summoners have Physik. Baffling.

That's the point, the DPS *dont* die so long as they are not standing in things. And even then, if you have a tank that can do a little off healing, that alone can keep up the DPS who do stand in things. You can see it in the Xeno video that started all this, whenever there's an unavoidable AoE there's an unbelievable amount of time for natural HP regen / incidental AoE heals like Phoenix to top people up.