#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[TheDustyOne]

The crazy thing is, dps and tank jobs never needed to have all those party heals and shields to have fun. Viper was tested by several media tour visitors and pretty much all of them said it was very fun to play. The job only has two melee role skills for self healing and it can't save others, but that was not an issue to any of the testers.

It literally wouldn't hurt anyone's enjoyment if healing skills were limited to healers, because other jobs already get their enjoyment from doing their primary role.

I still think it's okay for a handful to have heals. Dancer having Curing Waltz isn't bad, RDM having Vercure isn't bad, it's when there's enough heals from non-healers and low enough incoming damage that it becomes a problem.

[PercibelTheren]

I still think it's okay for a handful to have heals. Dancer having Curing Waltz isn't bad, RDM having Vercure isn't bad, it's when there's enough heals from non-healers and low enough incoming damage that it becomes a problem.

Agreed. There's a happy medium between "can help save the run in a pinch" and "can keep the party healed indefinitely". In my experience, DNC, RDM and DRK fall into the former category.

[Zaytex]

The crazy thing is, dps and tank jobs never needed to have all those party heals and shields to have fun. Viper was tested by several media tour visitors and pretty much all of them said it was very fun to play. The job only has two melee role skills for self healing and it can't save others, but that was not an issue to any of the testers.

It literally wouldn't hurt anyone's enjoyment if healing skills were limited to healers, because other jobs already get their enjoyment from doing their primary role.

As much as I am on board you can't ask for healing to be made harder, more outgoing damage to be consistent, whilst also stripping away every other jobs self-healing buttons. Tanks should be stripped back to a degree, especially WAR, but taking away a melee DPS bloodbath + second wind for example, and leaving them with nothing will simply make them resent poor healer players. I've been in those dungeons where some healing is required, and by newer or bad healers, they are unable to keep up and the dungeon comes to a complete crawl and it takes 25-30mins to clear.

Giving DPS and tanks a few self-healing abilities is fine, it means in casual content they're able to slightly mitigate a poor healer and keep themselves up for a short period of time before (increased as we asked) outgoing damage would kill them. In higher end content those buttons do not really change anything anyway, but if damage were to be made stronger and harder in casual content, then you have to give them some small ability to self-heal otherwise the party is a house of cards built on the healers skill.

Which IIRC, was an issue with HW/SB era of healers were the divide between good and bad healers was enormous and SE wanted to bridge the gap so people weren't essentially punished by their awful healer.

[Xurtan]

As much as I am on board you can't ask for healing to be made harder, more outgoing damage to be consistent, whilst also stripping away every other jobs self-healing buttons. Tanks should be stripped back to a degree, especially WAR, but taking away a melee DPS bloodbath + second wind for example, and leaving them with nothing will simply make them resent poor healer players. I've been in those dungeons where some healing is required, and by newer or bad healers, they are unable to keep up and the dungeon comes to a complete crawl and it takes 25-30mins to clear.

Giving DPS and tanks a few self-healing abilities is fine, it means in casual content they're able to slightly mitigate a poor healer and keep themselves up for a short period of time before (increased as we asked) outgoing damage would kill them. In higher end content those buttons do not really change anything anyway, but if damage were to be made stronger and harder in casual content, then you have to give them some small ability to self-heal otherwise the party is a house of cards built on the healers skill.

Which IIRC, was an issue with HW/SB era of healers were the divide between good and bad healers was enormous and SE wanted to bridge the gap so people weren't essentially punished by their awful healer.

I do kinda agree with this. I want to see healing on other classes nerfed, especially AOE, especially on tanks, but like, melees with second wind and bloodbath? Those aren't problematic, tbh.

[Zaytex]

I do kinda agree with this. I want to see healing on other classes nerfed, especially AOE, especially on tanks, but like, melees with second wind and bloodbath? Those aren't problematic, tbh.

They're not problematic because they're on a long cooldown and can only essentially be used once or twice per dungeon boss fight to fix a mistake or heal a raid-wide. They should have agency over their own lives to an extent, just like how healers should have agency in being able to mitigate a poor tank's cooldown usage. A middle ground is best.

[Turtledeluxe]

They're not problematic because they're on a long cooldown and can only essentially be used once or twice per dungeon boss fight to fix a mistake or heal a raid-wide. They should have agency over their own lives to an extent, just like how healers should have agency in being able to mitigate a poor tank's cooldown usage. A middle ground is best.

Correct. Cross class skills should always be this way. They should not perform at a level that makes entire roles unnecessary.

[4clubbedace]

They're not problematic because they're on a long cooldown and can only essentially be used once or twice per dungeon boss fight to fix a mistake or heal a raid-wide. They should have agency over their own lives to an extent, just like how healers should have agency in being able to mitigate a poor tank's cooldown usage. A middle ground is best.

bloodbath in certain fights like DSR dragonking akhmorns or gigaflare is fantatsicc to simply help along from the intense damage coming out, or in rewind when the tank lb3 wears off and melees are a little raw , genuinally helpful skill there

also, bloodwhetting is not that impressive in harder single target fight content, its useful, but no where near op godlike as it is in dungeons (holmgang is a better virtue and selling point there) dungeons should not be what the game is balanced around, but i do believe dungeons should be made more intresting or a mythic system implemented, because healers are not unique in dungeons being boring as all hell, there made for quite literlaly the lowest common denominator as all dungeons are required for msq,

of which, a "healing strike" where ppl simply switch to a different role still wont do much, beause people will either switch to healer for a faster queue, or just do duty support,

As far as i can see, all metrics will say is people switching to a class that they find enjoyable and still giving them money,

[Turtledeluxe]

The crazy thing is, dps and tank jobs never needed to have all those party heals and shields to have fun. Viper was tested by several media tour visitors and pretty much all of them said it was very fun to play. The job only has two melee role skills for self healing and it can't save others, but that was not an issue to any of the testers.

It literally wouldn't hurt anyone's enjoyment if healing skills were limited to healers, because other jobs already get their enjoyment from doing their primary role.

Now. Now..let the "critic" players make a mountain out of a molehill in peace. Healers couldn't get it together before those dps roles got their heals...WAR was unplayable before getting op sustain...controllers mean no job can have more than a one button dps rotation! Duh

Like what are you even talking about asking for some midcore content?? this game is supposed to be boring most of the time!! Stop trying to make it more fun so we can be elitist in peace. Ugh

/s aside I don't mean to say all self heals are bad I just think it's funny it was implied other jobs getting healing was to help healers

[WeakestZenosEnjoyer]

snip

Okay so in order:

You've literally listed 3/4 tanks being problematic, I have no idea how this is a counter argument.

Target swapping has nothing to do with a damage rotation, it's all just targeting the boss, it's literally oGCD heals that have you swap between allies and enemies rapidly, Dia being a 15s DoT or PoM being a 60s CD is irrelevant. In fact "but the controller players" directly conflicts with oGCDs being so abundant, surely you should be supporting a consolidation here so there's less target swapping.

Mentor roulette is just a hilarious example of intensive healing. A solid portion of the playerbase does not even have access to it so no, I haven't actually tried Mentor roulette, I physically cannot because I'm not a mentor.

[Supersnow845]

Like xeno is a good player there is no doubt about that and dungeons shouldn’t be hard because they are story content but if you are going to run an alternate comp that basically removes the role that is designed as the party safety net and you can still mess up that badly and take that many vuln stacks there’s arguments to be made that the dungeons are too easy

Like I don’t want to block people from story progression but I’m reaching the point that I don’t physically understand how you can be that bad at the game to be challenged here, the NIN took 4 vuln stacks before they went down, how much less punishment can you physically ask for especially in a game that has dedicated support roles that are meant to alleviate this