Helare shortage in PF: what would bring you back?

[Renathras]

Yeah, as someone that has been slowly catching up on the forums over the last week or two, ya'll *did* kind of start being aggressive and start throwing out the personal insults to Renathras first, and he's responded by being hostile in kind. Granted MOST of you have eased up on it since then, but can you really blame him for still being defensive when so many people are constantly taking potshots at him, rather than *just* arguing with him? And if you guys don't want to engage with his walls of text, you could pretty easily just, you know, ignore him.

And all the rest, too!

I was with you until Seraph Strike.

...though if Seraph Strike was "rush to a friendly target and deliver a burst AOE heal" as kind of a take on Pneuma (like doing a healing canonball into a swimming pool of allies, lol), that might be fun.

Honestly, I like some of what you have there, and agree that there are some ways to make WHM better without changing its damage kit that it's honestly surprising the Devs haven't done. For example, I've already said that Plenary Indulgence should have a Pro-shell effect and be WHM's shorter (60 sec) CD mitigation. I've also said at various times reworking Dia into a Thundercloud proc OR ShB SMN Ruin 4 type ability OR a damage upkeep buff like Huraijin or Storm's Eye or...quite a few things, actually, would all be fine. I've also supported the idea of paring down less used or less useful abilities. I think I've also at various times proposed making Regen an oGCD OR generate Lilies, make all healing spells/GCDs generate a Blood Lily, and so on. When I say "leave as it is", I'm mostly talking about the damage dealing kit, to clarify what I mean there.

I also have long wanted Louisouix's cutscene protect thing that Y'Shtola used after the Bloody Banquet, too, yet WHM's have consistently been denied and instead it was given to AST. So we're in agreement on that. Though I hate that channeled things in FFXIV (AST and PLD wings) are generally things just "flashed" and not actually channeled for their full duration outside of ultimates/transition boss mega attacks.

EDIT:

Hm...

A few things I want to address, starting with the last:

The smiley face was to convey humor, not snark, which is why I even clarified in the parenthesis. I'll try to refrain from humor going forward, since it's too easily confused. You have remained largely neutral in tone. Though you might not have read it, I specifically pointed to you as a sober minded, reasonable, and respectful individual in my reply to T-Owl. Had I meant it as harsh and biting, there'd be no smiley face nor the parenthetical. But, as that was confused, I will try to refrain from doing so again. Though I would note...eh...maybe best not.

To the top: I again am a bit confused. If you said what someone is describing they want to play sounds like a Tank, should they take offense to that? If someone likes seeing big damage numbers, but also said they want to draw the boss's agro, shrug off attacks, manage a suite of defensive abilities to survive hits and protect their allies, but wanted to do this on a Ranged Physical, should they take offense if you said "What you describe sounds like you might enjoy playing a Tank"?

Though I would like to ask, and no snark or sarcasm: What do you find satisfying about DNC's gameplay loop? I haven't done basically anything with DNC, so I'm curious what it has going for it that you find engaging? And are there other "simple" Jobs (for example, if you play and enjoy SMN or WAR) that you like (if any) that you could describe what in their gameplay loops you find engaging and satisfying (if you do - if you don't, feel free to just say...well, that you don't?)

"further develop" - no, made different/distinct. I don't consider those gameplay forms better or more developed. As you know, I hate DoT gameplay, so I would NEVER describe SCH going back to the SB kit to be "more developed" or preferable to me personally. I just think it would make OTHER PEOPLE happier, and I'd like those other people who do want to play healer but want to play that kind of healer to have one in this game they can get on, play, and be happy with. I've asked you before why you're so adamant that I and those like me not be given the same offer, and as I can tell, your answer is generally "you deserve better", but when I press with "what if we don't WANT your better?", there's really not a great counter to that. Indeed, your "if you do not want that...you are playing the wrong game" could be seen as a bit...dismissive? Animosity? Harsh?

I'm certain you don't intend it to be harsh, but it comes across as a brief, harsh comment. To apply your descriptors to it. (And not with snark - it seems to me harsh whenever anyone says to another person they are unwelcome in a given venue, including games, even if it was not intended to be so)

To answer your question: "but then why are you playing FFXIV to begin with?"

Remember I've been playing since 2.3. The game WAS designed for people who want to engage with GCD healing and not with GCD combat at the time for WHM players. And since that time, I've met people, enjoyed the story, the characters, the world, and the content. I love exploration stuff like Eureka and Bozja, I love challenging stuff like Extremes, I love trying to collect mounts and minions and orchestration rolls, to challenge myself with various forms of content, and to play with friends. I also have long thought - challenged of late, but I still hold it as true - that FFXIV has one of the nicer, friendlier, more caring and welcoming communities across MMOs.

Those things are all why I play FFXIV. Should I, loving those things, coming to the game when it DID accommodate old-school GCD healers, suddenly abandon the game because some people on an internet forum have told me it's no longer designed to play that way even though the Devs are clearly trying to keep it that way for WHM by the very design it has today with the Lily system?

As I've said before, I don't define it as "stagnation": I genuinely feel - and have argued why - WHM is in the best place it's ever been in FFXIV's history right now in EW. HW and especially SB were far worse for it, ShB was EW with Lilies being a damage loss rather than damage neutral, and ARR was the "first season weirdness" new TV shows often have as the role and Jobs found their footing. I know it's hard for you to see it, but I'm not arguing for stagnation anymore than people arguing for SCH to go back to its SB incarnation are arguing for regressiveness.

.

I'll try to just not engage with the more antagonistic folks in the spirit of comity outside of the neutral posts that can be largely answered as such.

Astrologian. Your idea could fit astrologian.

As I've said, AST is the healer I play the least, so I mostly am leaving it up to AST players to argue what they would like best for it. But I feel like AST is the healer that most needs a continuous, set, predictable rotation (e.g. not filled with procs or things that change it up) since they have to do so much with Cards and oGCDs during their burst that having to fit that in around a lot of other mental juggling might be a poor fit. That said, again, I'm not an AST main, so they may collectively WANT that. But at least on paper, I could see it benefitting from a straightforward rotation.

The rest we disagree on so...I'll just leave it at that.

maybe? but it would never happen because of the extra baggage it comes with. in a dungeon, what would you do, 1 tank/heal/dps/support?

I specifically mentioned that when they que up for 4 mans, the DF would slot them in as a DPS. If you ended up with a party of 1 tank, 1 heal, 2 support or 1 tank, 1 heal, 2 dps, we're talking 4 man dungeons, so they are and would be viable either way, just as if you get a tank/heal/DNC/BRD, 4 mans are perfectly viable today. The role would play more to supporting allies, but still be functional in DPS for 4 man purposes since their filler would be their damage rotation. This would mainly be for 8 man tuning, and would also help with the whole "worthless MCH" and "Caster slot needs to have a Raise" weirdness we have today.

And honestly, they probably should have done that with Barrier healers.

Regardless of what else, we all can agree, I think, that the Pure/Barrier split has been an abject failure?

If the Barrier piece of that WAS more of a Support - to use the ARR example, if the Pure side of that was ARR WHM and the Barrier side of that was ARR SCH - we'd all be a lot happier, I think.

As to people being forced to change because their Job was shifted out from under them - that's what people here are asking to do with all four healers. So...

Also - no joke - I opposed the Stoneskin removal and have this entire time. As much as many people here argue for Cleric Stance to come back in some form or another - almost every WHM proposal, ever notice how almost all of them, if not outright all of them, have "Additional Effect: Cleric Stance" and the buff do something? Like people want it back so much, they try to find some way to work it in, or work something in with the same name? - yeah, for years I was that way with Stoneskin. I finally kinda gave up on it, but as recently as ShB when EW was announced and stuff, I proposed having "Stoneskin" as a low level Divine Benison for WHM that Trait upgrades to Divine Benison at some point. To this day I still love the animation and sound effect of it as the stone slats lock into place creating a barrier, and I loved having an ability I could cast on people out in the field (non-party members) that would last for a while, especially using one on lower level players. A part of me for years wanted it back. I suppose I still do, I've just accepted it isn't coming back...

if you liked it so much, how come you didn't answer it? would that reworked DNC be a healer, or a DPS?

Snark aside: I started a whole other thread on the topic! That's how much I thought it was an interesting question deserving of more dedicated discussion instead of lost among the other topics of this thread.