Helare shortage in PF: what would bring you back?

[ty_taurus]

But sch still has to cast normal succor at times, just like sge has to cast euk prog at times, "not having good gcd's" doesn't mean you don't use your gcd's.

Not in most content. Even certain savage fights are very clearable without ever GCD healing as SCH or SGE because their OGCD healing is so vast and on relatively short cooldowns. In a smooth or smoothish P4S run, I'd not need to use any E. Prognosis casts during the door boss or the second boss really. I'd personally use it a bit liberally during curtain call just because at that point, I cared more about just getting the clear and being extra safe, but I didn't feel like I ever needed E. Prognosis in that fight. I've not done the current savages yet because I'm lazy, and I only healed the first 4 to update my experience with healing and also playing as SGE so I'd know what I was talking about in healing discussions, but I have no intention of healing for the rest of Endwalker anyway. So ultimately I can't speak for any of them on healing requirements.

[Semirhage]

We've had COMPETENT healers, and they're the ones being driven off because the coddled DPSers you hold on a pedestal are so lazy and incompetent that they're causing wipes and then blaming the COMPETENT healers that you revile. And the irony is, the people that were driven away from healing weren't the competent healers, they were the wannabe DPSers who often BECAME DPSers, only to be the ones coddled and now causing those wipes.

You couldn't have this more backwards if you tried.

It never fails. Every time. "You're not REAL healers! You're just DPS players in disguise looking for quick clears! The people still attracted to the role are the REAL healers!"

I've played healers/support in games for decades. d e c a d e s. I've played them in single player RPGs. I've played them in tabletop RPGs. Doing the math, my D&D/Pathfinder rap sheet has me playing Clerics and Oracles in just under 75% of them. Seventy-five. I've played support in all but one MMO I've picked up over the years, and that's in the double digits (and is counting FFXIV, where I healed for more expansions than I haven't).

I've had just about every single Sylphie traipsing through these forums either directly accuse or imply that I'm not a Real Healer (tm) when I or someone else here has the temerity to state that we think spamming CureMedica and having the most simplistic damage rotation outside a mobile idle game isn't good game design.

I've quite possibly played healers longer than you've been alive. Not a real healer. Get OVER yourself.

[ForsakenRoe]

I've quite possibly played healers longer than you've been alive. Not a real healer. Get OVER yourself.

it's because their argument crumbles at the slightest poke of logic, so they just revert to the 'no true scotsman' fallacy and claim us healers who are posting our grievances, are 'not true healers' and are just dps players who decided to handicap ourselves to do 50% of the damage of a dps class because...?

related note, i just did expert roulette cos i still need to cap tomes, went as sage. someone stood in the purple laser on 2nd boss of aldazaal for its entire channel duration (like 7 ticks of damage), one druochole and they lived fine. total GCDs used? zero, as expected. as we 'fake healers' have said for a long time, if your party is remotely competent, your reward as a healer is that you get to press dyskrasia/holy/the other ones even more, and in raids its the same story but substitute 'aoe spam' for 'single target spam'

[T-Owl]

It never fails. Every time. "You're not REAL healers! You're just DPS players in disguise looking for quick clears! The people still attracted to the role are the REAL healers!"

I've played healers/support in games for decades. d e c a d e s. I've played them in single player RPGs. I've played them in tabletop RPGs. Doing the math, my D&D/Pathfinder rap sheet has me playing Clerics and Oracles in just under 75% of them. Seventy-five. I've played support in all but one MMO I've picked up over the years, and that's in the double digits (and is counting FFXIV, where I healed for more expansions than I haven't).

I've had just about every single Sylphie traipsing through these forums either directly accuse or imply that I'm not a Real Healer (tm) when I or someone else here has the temerity to state that we think spamming CureMedica and having the most simplistic damage rotation outside a mobile idle game isn't good game design.

I've quite possibly played healers longer than you've been alive. Not a real healer. Get OVER yourself.

I feel like people can't get over the fact that we don't live in 2004 or in the case of ARR 2013 anymore. I mean, quite literally, I saw ARR healing being used as an argument on this forum. Modern day gaming audiences are much more competent, with the rising popularity of a game ressources become more readily available and more importantly, games accomadate to a more active gameplay that doesn't enforce downtimes outside of certain mechanics, which all lead to the conclusion of healer dps rising as a measure of performance. I would argue that a big problem is that the problem is, that healers have barely any skill ceiling in this game. When I start to play healer for the first time seriously, I shouldn't be able to play on a level of having 100% dps uptime and being close to playing optimally even in casual content.

[Axious]

I feel like people can't get over the fact that we don't live in 2004 or in the case of ARR 2013 anymore. I mean, quite literally, I saw ARR healing being used as an argument on this forum. Modern day gaming audiences are much more competent, with the rising popularity of a game ressources become more readily available and more importantly, games accomadate to a more active gameplay that doesn't enforce downtimes outside of certain mechanics, which all lead to the conclusion of healer dps rising as a measure of performance. I would argue that a big problem is that the problem is, that healers have barely any skill ceiling in this game. When I start to play healer for the first time seriously, I shouldn't be able to play on a level of having 100% dps uptime and being close to playing optimally even in casual content.

FACTS.

With the abolishment of TP and MP system came the rise of dps healers.

Speaking of skill ceiling. Would people be interested in the TP and MP system making a return?

It would open up other support roles for management support buffs. Ex: brd mages ballad and army peon returning.

Random thought. Tanks. Drk focusing on mp consumption. Creating mp support raid buffs?

[T-Owl]

FACTS.

With the abolishment of TP and MP system came the rise of dps healers.

Speaking of skill ceiling. Would people be interested in the TP and MP system making a return?

It would open up other support roles for management support buffs. Ex: brd mages ballad and army peon returning.

Random thought. Tanks. Drk focusing on mp consumption. Creating mp support raid buffs?

Nope. I think these systems were horrible, especially in aoe situations, because you were basically always dependent on your other players on whether or not you are forced to just stop playing the game for periods of time or not, which is not good game design. Thats why MMOs abolished those systems in the first place, they only enforce downtimes. Especially with healers, the sole reason why they wouldn't dps back in like old versions of WoW was, that their dps spells were too costly while providing too little damage inside a battle system were you need to engage in downtimes of not playing the game when there isn't something to heal to regen mana.

[ForsakenRoe]

they wouldn't dps back in like old versions of WoW was, that their dps spells were too costly while providing too little damage inside a battle system

there were 'some' skills they'd use even as a healer, paladins would keep up judgements on the boss, priests would attack with a wand to regen mana via judgement of wisdom (and MP5 from not casting), druids would... i dunno, melee for clearcasting procs? not so familiar with those, but the point is, even in vanilla-wrath there were 'some' damage things healers could do, which leads me to believe that it was at some point between cataclysm and WOD that the whole 'healers only heal and NEVER do damage' thing became prevalent.

as for whether i'd want those support buffs back, if the dps cant remember to feint or addle, i don't want to trust my MP economy to them either

[flowerfairy]

Played SCH for EX1, EX2, P1S, P2S, realized how boring it was and switched to DPS. Nothing to do in downtime except Broil Broil Broil. All healers need a rework across the board, 2 button rotations for a game that has you using your GCD for DPS for a majority of the fight is horrible.

Speaking of skill ceiling. Would people be interested in the TP and MP system making a return?

I didn't get to play a version of the game with TP, but from what I heard it was pointless for single target fights and annoying in AoE fights. Resource management sounds fun in practice but I think it would need to be majorly revamped to come back.
All jobs would need a way to restore TP/MP on its own that isn't just "don't attack", maybe melees get a system where you spend most of your TP on your burst phase and naturally recover it with a downtime rotation, and Lucid Dreaming stays the same for casters. P.ranged could get the job of extending that burst phase for everyone. Sprint is a toggle that rapidly burns TP but Expedient is a free 10s Sprint for everyone, stuff like that I guess.

[Rilifane]

I would love to get resource management back if it is something active you control through clever or attentive gameplay - pushing Lucid every 60s doesn't cut it.
Nor should it become irrelevant outside prog/ clownfiesta parties; rather it should be something that is constantly part of your gameplay and you can manipulate your MP gain through attentive and clever gameplay while the learning healer will simply suffer dps loss from not doing it properly.

MP or resource management in general isn't inherently bad but it needs to be in the player's control. Keeping Lucid on cooldown and being screwed and auto-attacking when neither Lucid nor your class-specific gimmick is up after something happened is definitely not control.
And I think that's what people usually dislike about such things: not the core idea of managing a resource but rather the lack of control over it.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I would love to get resource management back if it is something active you control through clever or attentive gameplay - pushing Lucid every 60s doesn't cut it.
Nor should it become irrelevant outside prog/ clownfiesta parties; rather it should be something that is constantly part of your gameplay and you can manipulate your MP gain through attentive and clever gameplay while the learning healer will simply suffer dps loss from not doing it properly.

How dare you to propose a gameplay that potentially subjects the newbie learning healer to suboptimal performance, there must not be a gap between them & the skilled healer reee. /s