Helare shortage in PF: what would bring you back?

[VentVanitas]

To be honest, I kinda feel like outside of the story, WoW is actually still doing a nice job in pve content compared to FF14, but class design is really their strong suit. Balance is an issue, but balance is also objectively harder in WoW compared to FF14 because there are many, many more variations to take into account.

I honest to God would've given WoW a fair chance already but I can only afford one sub at a time right now. Which is a shame because I'm completely burnt out on XIV from how boring and safe its job design is. Guess I'll have to stick with Guild Wars 2 for now, it at least lets me play an actual DoT mage.

[Mithron]

I just healed Barb ex for the first time yesterday, cleared about 4-5 times and felt so bored that I never want to heal it again. If I'm not going to be challenged with more complex healing required for most general non-Ultimate/day 1 Savage prog encounters, then I need something else complex to do (DPS) in the mean time. This is exactly why I loved Cleric Stance: it added complexity for even easier encounters while allowing very difficult encounters like Ultimate to be balanced around using Cleric Stance much less as more healing GCDs are required.

[Sunhwapark]

This is exactly why I loved Cleric Stance: it added complexity for even easier encounters while allowing very difficult encounters like Ultimate to be balanced around using Cleric Stance much less as more healing GCDs are required.

Yea, I kinda get it, but all it would do in it's current iteration is same as before you'd just be enclosing the damage spells in brackets again. (cleric) 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 (cleric)
While I wasn't opposed to Cleric stance in it's earliest iteration, it basically gave birth to the rebellious sylphie cult group - the fact it got reworked and removed to make the role more approachable counters their common arguments for why they think they can get away with being rp pacifists in 90% of content, but they would still be more willing to fight you instead of the boss that currently has aggro on you.

As much as it bothers me to say it, because of the development path we're on now, it would just result in healer quality going even lower than it is already, and we're already barrel scraping enough as it is when the difference between "good/bad healers" is whether or not the person is AFK in duty. But I do agree that if it were to exist again, it would definitely have the potential to design higher end content around more heal usage, vs sitting in cstance for 30s then swapping out for a bit to heal some chip damage.

[Liam_Harper]

Herein lies the problem: Fights tuned for coordinated statics cause mass healer shortages in PF.

The converse, though, is rarely true - bored static healers still typically continue healing in their static. It's not 100%, but the losses are far lower.

It's not tuned for a coordinated static. A coordinated static makes most of Savage a joke. It's tuned towards players with a braincell or two. An uncoordinated group could get through fine by utilizing their toolkit with semi-competence.

If there's a shortage, the issue is they drove off their good healers and tanks years ago and replaced them with afk Sylphies and 0 mit baby's first blue melee dps. The afk Sylphies are being scared off because sometimes they actually have to do a little more than spam Medica II and Cure and the competent healers still aren't particularly tempted to come back and spam 1 inbetween babysitting tanks that melt away at simple tank mechanics. So no one is really enjoying it that much.

[Aword3213]

DPS shortage
is DPS not engaging enough?

[T-Owl]

I honest to God would've given WoW a fair chance already but I can only afford one sub at a time right now. Which is a shame because I'm completely burnt out on XIV from how boring and safe its job design is. Guess I'll have to stick with Guild Wars 2 for now, it at least lets me play an actual DoT mage.

I personally just switch which game I subscribe, depending on what I feel more like playing at the time. Though in two months from now the new expansion is upcoming, which on one hand means its the best time to start fresh and also they accompany it with a bonus xp event until then next week, on the other hand it also means you need the expac if you want to do any content outside of old open world stuff and random dungeons, because the game is more designed towards letting players jump fast into current content.

It's not tuned for a coordinated static. A coordinated static makes most of Savage a joke. It's tuned towards players with a braincell or two. An uncoordinated group could get through fine by utilizing their toolkit with semi-competence.

If there's a shortage, the issue is they drove off their good healers and tanks years ago and replaced them with afk Sylphies and 0 mit baby's first blue melee dps. The afk Sylphies are being scared off because sometimes they actually have to do a little more than spam Medica II and Cure and the competent healers still aren't particularly tempted to come back and spam 1 inbetween babysitting tanks that melt away at simple tank mechanics. So no one is really enjoying it that much.

I would guess that good healers and tanks are also probably more prone towards being in a static, especially since they would have a much easier time to find one.

[Renathras]

It's not tuned for a coordinated static. A coordinated static makes most of Savage a joke. It's tuned towards players with a braincell or two. An uncoordinated group could get through fine by utilizing their toolkit with semi-competence.

This is hyperbole and you know it. Everyone playing this game has "a braincell or two", and they are clearly not tuned for them when only 10-20% of players clear the things reliably. Fights that REQUIRE coordination on burst windows and mitigation are tuned towards coordinated groups - by definition, that's what "coordination" means, it requires a "coordinated" group to achieve "coordination". Literally, it's in the name.

If there's a shortage, the issue is they drove off their good healers and tanks years ago and replaced them with afk Sylphies and 0 mit baby's first blue melee dps. The afk Sylphies are being scared off because sometimes they actually have to do a little more than spam Medica II and Cure and the competent healers still aren't particularly tempted to come back and spam 1 inbetween babysitting tanks that melt away at simple tank mechanics. So no one is really enjoying it that much.

This is ALSO hyperbole. Sylphies don't do Savage. I've seen far more wipes because of my co-healer spamming their damage spell even while DPS are eating dirt than I've seen from healers not casting damage spells. In fact, I've never been in a single Savage PF where either healer DIDN'T cast damage spells. I've never seen it at any point. Now to be fair, I've only been doing them since EW, but I've also done Extremes since HW, and I've never seen a PF Extreme (or even a friends' group Extreme) where a healer did not cast a damage spell.

This fiction of the Cure 1 spamming Sylphie doing Extreme and Savage content is a strawman dead horse that's already beaten to the point the molecules are no longer bonded. It doesn't exist, and hasn't existed since, at the latest, HW, if even then.

Sylphie healers in hard content only existed in ARR, and they didn't Cure 1 spam, they cast Cure 1, Cure 2, Medica, Medica 2, and Stoneskin, and so they weren't your Cure 1 spamming caricature then, either. And besides that, the content AT THE TIME was made for and balanced around that.

They drove off the DPSers and replaced them with general healers. Now they've made the healing require coordination from the Tanks and especially the DPS, and the coddled DPS have forgotten that mitigation is their responsibility, too.

It's not the "afk Sylphies", because afk Sylphies are not doing, and HAVE NEVER DONE, Savage content, and even you know that. No one can literally afk in a standard PF group. AFK in P5S and what happens? You fail chains. You cannot physically leave your computer and clear Savage content, and you KNOW this. That only works with actual carry groups, and those aren't PF standard (those are people paying gil or irl money to do, and generally they'll be in a DPS spot anyway)

We've had COMPETENT healers, and they're the ones being driven off because the coddled DPSers you hold on a pedestal are so lazy and incompetent that they're causing wipes and then blaming the COMPETENT healers that you revile. And the irony is, the people that were driven away from healing weren't the competent healers, they were the wannabe DPSers who often BECAME DPSers, only to be the ones coddled and now causing those wipes.

You couldn't have this more backwards if you tried.

[Azuri]

It's not the "afk Sylphies", because afk Sylphies are not doing, and HAVE NEVER DONE, Savage content, and even you know that.

Now to be fair, I've only been doing them since EW.

Something doesn't add up here...

[Corbeau]

I'm starting to think there's good reason why WoW doesn't put raidwide damage mitigation into DPS players' hands.

[Aword3213]

I'm starting to think there's good reason why WoW doesn't put raidwide damage mitigation into DPS players' hands.

Yes

Let healers and tanks handle mitigations please. That's what I'm here for.