Helare shortage in PF: what would bring you back?

[Renathras]

It never fails. Every time. "You're not REAL healers! You're just DPS players in disguise looking for quick clears! The people still attracted to the role are the REAL healers!"

I've played healers/support in games for decades. d e c a d e s. I've played them in single player RPGs. I've played them in tabletop RPGs. Doing the math, my D&D/Pathfinder rap sheet has me playing Clerics and Oracles in just under 75% of them. Seventy-five. I've played support in all but one MMO I've picked up over the years, and that's in the double digits (and is counting FFXIV, where I healed for more expansions than I haven't).

I've had just about every single Sylphie traipsing through these forums either directly accuse or imply that I'm not a Real Healer (tm) when I or someone else here has the temerity to state that we think spamming CureMedica and having the most simplistic damage rotation outside a mobile idle game isn't good game design.

I've quite possibly played healers longer than you've been alive. Not a real healer. Get OVER yourself.

It never fails, every time, you with a caricature and possibly the worst takes on this forum.

I get you REALLY want to play a Support and not a Healer and REALLY want to not get called out on it, but I've been playing Healers since I started playing games in the 80s. If you've got me beat, it's not by much. Decades here, too. d e c a d e s. Single player RPGs, tabletop, MMOs, MUDs, D&D, you name it, I've probably either healed in it or its contemporaries. I think I've played a non-healer in ONE D&D game run. Meaning my percentage is likely higher than yours - nice try at the purist flex on me, though.

And it's a good thing I'm not a Sylphie then, isn't it? Not to mention no one's getting on to you over you saying spamming Cure/Medica is sucky. Because (a) that isn't how healing in the game works and (b) that's not what you're attacking. If you actually engaged on the ACTUAL healing model we have here, not your caricature of both it and of healer players you don't like, then maybe you'd get less flack and more serious conversations.

Further, it's not an INSULT to point out someone doesn't really want to heal. Get over YOURself.

EDIT:

You've been calling out hyperbole, but I don't understand what the problem is. You've used hyperbolic examples as well. There's nothing wrong with using it. It's just another device for trying to communicate your thoughts. If anything it just displays how passionately people feel about these issues. People are reasonably frustrated as these are arguments that have been going on for 6+ years at this point.

I DO try to avoid it. The problem with hyperbole is that there's a level to show trends and then there's the "make up something that either never happens or so rarely happens as to make no difference". I challenge you to find ONE healer in any max level content that, completely of their own volition (e.g. you didn't pay or dare them to do it) goes through an entire 4 man, 8 man, or 24 man casting Cure 1 and nothing else. One Savage fight. One Extreme. ANYTHING.

It DOES. NOT. EXIST. and we all know it. Meaning it's a 100% pointless canard that distracts from any actual or serious discussion. Arguing against boogiemen only works when at least some version of them actually exists in a realistic sense, and the Cure 1 spamming Sylphie probably doesn't exist past level 30 in low level dungeons (where it legitimately could not matter less), if even that far.

You've been one of the more rational people here, surely you can see how fruitless it is. It ends up being a punching bag for people that want to act better than someone, but the punching bag doesn't really even exist. And for all the people saying "YEAH IT DOES!! I SAW LIKE THREE OF THEM ONE DAY!!!" the game has 3,000,000+ players. Would you like to do the math on what 3 out of that is in percent terms and then look up the definition of statistically insignificant?

I would like to have actual discussions about the state of healing and healers - and the game as a whole - and what can be done with them to make it all better, but that's impossible with people who want to attack "Sylphies" for all of their woes. It's skapegoating at best, and complete insanity at worst. And the best part is, it literally fixes nothing to do, and doesn't make the people doing it sound any more legitimate to anyone who doesn't already lockstep agree with them. Meaning you can get no ACTUAL change from doing it. It's just a venting at some "Other" to blame for your problems, AND it prevents you from listening or being open to some solutions that might actually get you at least some of what you want. That whole "cut off your nose to spite your face" thing. Schadenfreude, but completely worthless.

Inanity, thy name is...

Yeah, not even going to bother this time.

Something doesn't add up here...

By the definition of this forum, I'm not a "Sylphie" because I don't only cast Cure 1.

it's because their argument crumbles at the slightest poke of logic, so they just revert to the 'no true scotsman' fallacy

No, that's you.

Those on the other side argue for healers to have a more heal focus, and enjoy fights that require more healing. When the people complaining healing is "too easy/boring" then complain about having to cast GCD heals, the first obvious conclusion (Ocham's Razor) is that they don't actually want to cast heals. Or, at least, none that take away from their damage.

How do you classify a person who wants to deal damage more than they want to heal?

It's not even an INSULT. When I say someone wants to Tank, that's not an insult to them. The game needs Tanks. When I say someone would rather play a Support role, that's not an insult to them. It's an implicit statement that the game really needs a fourth role that IS a dedicated Support. It's not a purist argument, it's a "if a person doesn't really WANT to heal, or do much healing, then it's logical to say they aren't really inclined as healers and MIGHT just prefer another role". If your goal is to optimize damage - and NO, that's not optimizing healing just because the latter is required to do the former does not mean they're the same thing, just as one must crack open an egg to cook scrambled eggs, but one may also crack open an egg to make cookies with it as an ingredient - then it is fair to note that you might be ill content on a Job or role focused mostly on healing.

It's not an attack.

It's not an insult.

Pretending it is too play the victim or try to veer off into an attack - when the people doing it were ALREADY attacking others so it was a counter to their own aggressiveness - is not somehow beyond the pale.

I mean, quite literally, I saw ARR healing being used as an argument on this forum.

God, you're horrible.

You mean when people were insisting ARR had more damage spells and everyone was Cleric Stance dancing in a frenetic DPS race as healers and I pointed out that was false using actual videos of raiders at the time? When other people were appealing to ARR, you were fine with that because you thought it supported your position, and then I showed you it was false and all of a sudden, mentioning ARR healing was somehow backwards and not important to the conversation when it no longer supported your position?

God you're the worst...

It would also help to be a little less pedantic instead of going "You can't ACKSHUALLY AFK or you fail mechanics!!111 Hyperbole!!!!111" and derailing every single thread into a personal battleground by making it about this fallacy and that fallacy. It can't be that difficult to read between the lines and get the meaning.

Maybe I wouldn't need to bee "pedantic" if you people would stop mentioning the thing that you ALL KNOW ISN'T TRUE AND DOESN'T EXIST?

Seriously, what's the point bringing it up in EVERY thread when we all know it's going to derail the thread and we ALL know it's not even true?

If it's not true and someone is trying to make some "meaning" what is that meaning? Because these people seem to be serious. Hell, you even said in your post that Sylphies are in Savage runs. And Sylphies are defined as people that Cure 1 spam for Jesus and do literally nothing else by this forum. So it's not a Sylphie you're having issue with, it's a Kryle or something.

Even your Sylphie example wasn't casting Cure 1 and nothing else, and you didn't include any data, but I'd wager if you weren't clearing the fight, you had a lot of people dying to random stuff. You realize healers can't heal people who are being one-shot, right? Maybe it wasn't the GCD healer that was your problem.

And if you quit PF healing, then...I guess when healing gets easier after this tier, you can just look in a mirror when asking why SE made it easier again.

Speaking of skill ceiling. Would people be interested in the TP and MP system making a return?

Yes, actually. Might as well at this point and it'd be nice for DPSers to be the ones that aren't boring and coddled. I might actually consider playing a DPS Job if it wasn't so boring and coddled and braindead.

Yes, you are right. They don't appy since the topic of this thread is about PF. I'm not good at reading, so maybe the PF in this thread means PF which exludes parties aiming for practice because practice parties in PF do not count as PF. Right

But your PF certain do apply. because it's convienient

In addition to the hyperbole and caricatures, this is the main problem with this forum - the abject cherry picking to make their point SOMEhow still valid, even when it's shown to not be valid. The inability of people who just KNOW they MUST be right to recognize when they just MIGHT be wrong, and to try and spin being shown data indicating they're wrong to it somehow not counting and them still being right OR the new data not mattering (see the discussion about ARR healers supposedly being hyper-DPSers with tons of DPS buttons and Cleric Stance dancing, often brought up in this forum, as suddenly not important and a person being "stuck in the past" when said person uses actual videos from the time to prove that wasn't true while these folks also persist in insisting it was still true at the very end of ARR when everyone overgeared the content and thus must have always been true, players were just "bad" before then, etc.)