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  1. #11
    Player
    Renathras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,747
    Character
    Ren Thras
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by MintnHoney View Post
    Based on what?
    Based on any discussion alternatives that aren't "make the DPS kit more involved" being met with scorn.

    Some parts can remain simple to make room for complicated pieces;
    "The simple parts allow more complex parts to not be as overwhelming" isn't simple, though. The complex parts make it...not simple. I do agree that if we gave SCH/AST/SGE more complex kits, AST should be the simplest to allow for their Card play. It's why I think AST should have a static 1-2-3 rotation, possibly with a DoT to refresh here and there.

    Indeed, and things can be improved and added so that there's kit interactivity,
    There IS kit interactivity, just not with their damage kit. And I'll note you can't resist the urge to make personal attacks...

    And many of those people who play healer classes in MMOs also tend to get to enjoy gameplay where they aren't infantilized.
    No one is being "infantilized". The problem I have with people arguing from your side of this issue is that none of you seem able to resist urges to attack people as bads, babies, or invalids.

    Multi-tasking is usually the name of the game in healer MMO gameplay, which usually does include juggling DPS along with other management and tool use.
    Mulit-tasking is. Juggling DPS is not. Most MMO healers have extremely basic DPS kits that they use when soloing and either don't use at all in group content or use very very minimally as filler. As I've noted, the difference in FFXIV is how little actual healing needs to be done and how healing oGCDs are so powerful they can deal with it without needing GCD heals. Note that all the people insisting there is a 11111 rotation seem to fail to realize that if they're weaving oGCDs in there, it's not 11111, it's 12134151161211371181914 and so on. Those are buttons that must be pressed. If you look at JUST the GCDs, most Jobs in this game have between 2 and 7 that they push often. WHM has (in single target fights) 3. GNB has 6. WAR has 5. SMN has 3 (because of how Gemshine and Astral Flow work), and so on. The oGCDs are what make the game in a lot of ways, but especially for Tanks and Healers and is what is different vs something like WoW where the GCD is shorter but oGCDs don't exist.

    Actually, I didn't say anything about your "suggestion" as a whole, but sure. I'll be in the "I don't like your suggestion" camp, but raise you a "there are people out there with better ideas than you've put forth, and, after your display, I'd wager that there are even ideas that are even better than that which you will likely never be able to fathom" to go along with it.
    You REALLY can't help yourself from making personal attacks, can you? Do you even know what my suggestion is? No, you're just attacking it as an extension of attacking me. It could be something you'd agree with if you delved into it, but no, personal attack trumps reason. My "display" is trying to be reasonable and offer compromise solutions to people that want to get 100% of everything their way, aren't interested in competing positions nor in compromise, and react toxicly to anyone who doesn't share their position. Look through this thread and you can see anytime someone says they like the current model or would like small changes to it but not the kind you ask for, how they're attacked and people attacking them (often quoting them out of context or on technicalities) get double digit updoots. Apparently, people trying to be calm and reasonable and offer compromises but who AT ALL like the current model or who dislike DPSing and don't want more DPS forced on them are to be tarred, feathered, and run out of the forum on a rail.

    Your uncompromising take
    How on earth is my take "uncompromising"?! o.O Genuine question. My "take" is "make some of the healers much more complex, some a bit more complex, and one leave at the current level of complexity". How is that "uncompromising" in any way? The one being uncompromising here is you with your "I get everything I want and you get nothing, otherwise I'm bored and unsatisfied and you're a little baby anyway"?

    on all things is not the only alternative, no matter how much you want to disregard other avenues. Given that you are not the developer
    No, the Devs have already said they aren't giving you want you want. So the alternative to what I propose - my proposal being the compromise position - is the Devs just continuing to do what they've been doing and YOU getting nothing.

    The situation is not "You get what you want OR we go half-way to what you want". The situation is "You get NOTHING that you want OR we go half-way to what you want". The status quo is what the Devs have indicated they want. So it is the alternative in question vs the compromise.

    No matter how personally insulted you may be.
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    Last edited by Renathras; 06-07-2022 at 08:11 AM. Reason: Edited for space