DPS who pull mobs

[Titansteel]

I've only let one DPS die for pulling mobs and it was because we had a couple of wipes already, multiple DPS deaths, and a new healer in the sub level 40 range that was really struggling to keep up.

He kept chugging away, pulling avoidable packs, so instead of complaining about it I let one of the packs he aggro'd kill him before regaining aggro. He stopped after that and the run went smooth without any deaths following.

Personally, I hate when DPS pull. I come from WoWs Mythic+ environment (picture extreme trials with hard time limits of 20-30 minutes) so I'm already pulling mobs as fast as my GCD and speed will allow me to. DPS think they're helping but they end up slowing down my pace dramatically.

I get it if you have a slow tank - but if you're a DPS that is incapable of reading the room then please do not pull.

[Mirhd]

Anything above 14~15mins enters sluggish territory.
Expecting wall to wall pulls is not wanting speedruns. Expecting people to press their buttons is not unrealistic or expecting high level, it's expecting the basics. If people just press their buttons there is no reason for a run to take anymore than that amount of time, it should take less.

Not going to bother beyond this post, since you seem set in your view, no matter how unrealistic.

Aoeing is a basic expectation, as such abilities are there to be used, and if someone weren't using aoe on groups, I would question that. Wall to wall (W2W from here on)is not "basic", it's something a rather vocal portion of the NA population decided should be. Not pulling W2W doesn't result in some 40 days and 40 nights scenario you seem to be envisioning. Again, you're thinking in extremes - not W2Wing doesn't mean one singular foe at a time. A tank pulling 2 packs isn't going to lead to a run taking 40+ minutes, and if you think anything slightly higher than 14-15 min is sluggish, it sounds like you need to take a step back and reevaluate some things, because good grief. I enjoy a smooth, fast run as much as the next person, but you're being ridiculous here, and your time isn't any more valuable than anyone elses'.

To reiterate: you want those tomes fast? Form a custom party. Roulette doesn't revolve around you, or any other single person.

To be fair couldn't the same be said for those who have things that may hold them back shouldn't they use party finder also?

The same argument can be used for the other side.

No, because of this:

Everyone likes to say it's a team effort when talking about things like healer dps or tanks that should peel, but then give selfish dps a pass when *they* don't play with the team.

That right there is why. You joined a roulette, you're expected to deal with what you get. You can't expect people to conform to what you want because you think it should be done a certain way. If I queue as dps and the tank/healer want to take it slow, I'm cool with it. They wanna go fast? Cool. I'm gonna push my buttons, and that's that.

[Lium]

I main WHM and I assume if a tank is pulling smaller, they have a reason. I don't need to know what it is. I'm not the PuG police. If they pull small, I can dps more. It's seriously like 2 minutes longer. And I would rather a tank pull small and keep AoEs out of my face than have tanks pull everything and dance a circle around all the mobs because they somehow think they will take less damage this way, constantly pointing their AoEs right at me in what was formerly a safe spot. This especially cheeses me off with the flans that have donut AoEs mixed with mobs of other types of AoEs.

I stay with my tank and if impatient dps run off out of heal range and die, that's on them. They didn't bring things back. I'm not going to chase them to Narnia and abandon my tank. My tank is the person who keeps my squishy butt alive.

If they pull too much and the tank can't keep up and we wipe, that's on them. If they keep doing it, not paying a bit of attention to what we can handle as a group, then I will be the first person with the finger on the kick button. Everyone likes to say it's a team effort when talking about things like healer dps or tanks that should peel, but then give selfish dps a pass when *they* don't play with the team.

Very much this. AST is my co-main job and it doesn't bother me at all if the tank is pulling small. I'm usually not in a rush when I play a video game because it means I'm on my free time and enjoying my hobby. I'm not in a hurry to get back to standing around in Limsa.

Some people really need to get over themselves.

[Awha]

Not going to bother beyond this post, since you seem set in your view, no matter how unrealistic.

Aoeing is a basic expectation, as such abilities are there to be used, and if someone weren't using aoe on groups, I would question that. Wall to wall (W2W from here on)is not "basic", it's something a rather vocal portion of the NA population decided should be. Not pulling W2W doesn't result in some 40 days and 40 nights scenario you seem to be envisioning. Again, you're thinking in extremes - not W2Wing doesn't mean one singular foe at a time. A tank pulling 2 packs isn't going to lead to a run taking 40+ minutes, and if you think anything slightly higher than 14-15 min is sluggish, it sounds like you need to take a step back and reevaluate some things, because good grief. I enjoy a smooth, fast run as much as the next person, but you're being ridiculous here, and your time isn't any more valuable than anyone elses'.

To reiterate: you want those tomes fast? Form a custom party. Roulette doesn't revolve around you, or any other single person.



No, because of this:



That right there is why. You joined a roulette, you're expected to deal with what you get. You can't expect people to conform to what you want because you think it should be done a certain way. If I queue as dps and the tank/healer want to take it slow, I'm cool with it. They wanna go fast? Cool. I'm gonna push my buttons, and that's that.

So if a group wants to go fast it is fine to pull for them then? Thus putting someone who for outside reasons cannot play at such a level?

Generally when someone pulls for the tank and everyone expect the tank take part that is a sign the group wants to go faster. It is rare to run into situations where healer or dps pull more then what a tank candle handle just due to how easy it is for tanks to perform their role.

That mindset of the party finder does not fly if you get a group that wants to go fast but someone wants to go slower they could also make a PF. That is the point I was getting at the argument can be made from the other side it just depends who the majority in the group up. The comment you quoted just highlights that point.

Like it or not a DPS can dictate the pace of a group. If I have good dps and my healer wants to do small pulls I will still do large pulls because I trust my dps can burn the mobs before I run out or cooldowns and mana.

It is a team effort majority dictate the pace not a single role. Players that want to be the sole person to dictate pace should just create a PF. You are right using a roulette means conforming to what you get or leave. For the most part though like it or not most groups prefer larger pulls that is the standard especially at the higher levels.

That is why whatever role I play and someone pulls small I will run ahead and pull extra if the tank pulls aggro off me I accept that is acknowledgement that it is okay if not then I will keep pulling as much is i can handle with my own cooldowns until the 5 min mark and will start a vote. If it passes cool if not i will just leave. This goes for when I play a tank healer or dps.

Granted if we wipe I will own up to it though something has to go horribly wrong to wipe just over a large pull. Either a gear issue or player skill issue.

[Igneous]

Why is humanity so nasty to one another

[Mirhd]

...

I know what you meant, which is why I quoted that other person again, and all you responded with was what you're been saying all along. The person in the qoute mentioned a tank was pulling smaller, it wasn't "just" the tank or "just" the healer.

Again, did you read any of that? You keep saying "majority", but your "majority" seems to revolve around what the dps want, regardless of how you dress it. I literally just said if the tank/healer (which can be either, or, or both) want a calmer pace and I (also as dps), don't care either way, that's the majority right there. If you, as the odd dps out, insist on going fast? Guess what, You're not the majority, and you can either take what roulette gave you, or eat a penalty. W2W pulls are something a portion of NA decided was expected, it isn't a basic requirement, whatever anyone on this forum tells themselves.

If the opposite is true and only one person wants to go at a calmer pace, they can make a request, and there's nothing wrong with that. The polite thing to do would be to acquiesce said request (though given the "ME ME ME" attitude on this forum...), but if they don't, then the person in that scenario can stick around or leave. I'd probably also leave with them though just on principle.

At the end of the day, roulette is roulette. If someone wants to go slower, deal with it.

[Artemiz]

That is why whatever role I play and someone pulls small I will run ahead and pull extra if the tank pulls aggro off me I accept that is acknowledgement that it is okay if not then I will keep pulling as much is i can handle with my own cooldowns until the 5 min mark and will start a vote. If it passes cool if not i will just leave. This goes for when I play a tank healer.

This part seems contradictory to everything else you've saying. You say one person doesn't dictate the pace and duty finder is random then this? Which is it? Seems to me you operate under the idea of "I know best and its my way or the highway"

So what if the tank doesn't meet you're expectations of W2W pulls, just roll with it, its DF.

[Mirhd]

This part seems contradictory to everything else you've saying. You say one person doesn't dictate the pace and duty finder is random then this? Which is it? Seems to me you operate under the idea of "I know best and its my way or the highway"

So what if the tank doesn't meet you're expectations of W2W pulls, just roll with it, its DF.

Yes, pretty much what TaleraRistain was saying. Awha and others like to parrot "it's a team effort".... until they don't get what they want. Funny how that works.

[Alaray]

I know what you meant, which is why I quoted that other person again, and all you responded with was what you're been saying all along. The person in the qoute mentioned a tank was pulling smaller, it wasn't "just" the tank or "just" the healer.

Again, did you read any of that? You keep saying "majority", but your "majority" seems to revolve around what the dps want, regardless of how you dress it. I literally just said if the tank/healer (which can be either, or, or both) want a calmer pace and I (also as dps), don't care either way, that's the majority right there. If you, as the odd dps out, insist on going fast? Guess what, You're not the majority, and you can either take what roulette gave you, or eat a penalty. W2W pulls are something a portion of NA decided was expected, it isn't a basic requirement, whatever anyone on this forum tells themselves.

If the opposite is true and only one person wants to go at a calmer pace, they can make a request, and there's nothing wrong with that. The polite thing to do would be to acquiesce said request (though given the "ME ME ME" attitude on this forum...), but if they don't, then the person in that scenario can stick around or leave. I'd probably also leave with them though just on principle.

At the end of the day, roulette is roulette. If someone wants to go slower, deal with it.

You do you if the group is cool with it.


But, if specifically speaking about endgame dungeons, the reason wall-to-wall pulls are considered standard is because it takes genuine effort to die doing them. To most people there's little reason not to do it, and plenty of reason to do it (you can pick a WAR + 3DPS and still do wall to wall pulls in Hero's or Matoya's). And, I mean, if you're a tank and don't push CD's there's virtually no reason for you to be in the group -- would be better just to be a melee with bloodbath. If you're a healer and all you're doing is attacking 2 mobs, why not just pull larger and use a couple free tools to smooth it out while casting a stronger ability and killing more things quicker? Granted, if there's a DF group I get (which, to be transparent, I haven't) where 3/4 want to go slow, I'll just take my penalty and do something else with no hard feelings -- if dungeons were more interesting, more fun and engaging, I might feel more inclined to even do slower groups but... honestly, dungeons as they are now, are incredibly dull affairs.

To say, though, that wall-to-wall (at the very least in endgame dungeons) is not standard is just... incorrect, at least as far as the NA datacenters are concerned (I've genuinely never had a tank who didn't do them, except like 1 time out of... hundreds of groups and even then they usually go ahead after a "can we do big pulls" with... maybe 1 in my entire time being a little passive aggressive about it but, tbh, we didn't really need a tank in Matoya's so if they df-quit it wouldn't've really mattered so the other 3 of us just continued pulling). Like, it's not even really an "elitist raider vs casual player" thing, it's just... easiest, fastest, and most people I run into don't like... run dungeons as their primary piece of content. Most people I run into just want their tomes for the day and to get it over with, so they can go move on to other content.

And, I mean, if you queue into a group where the majority wants to do the larger and faster sets of pulls, will you do them then?

[LaughingBanana]

Why is humanity so nasty to one another

Over only a couple of minutes difference, no less, hahah.