DPS who pull mobs

[ZedxKayn]

It's really not. Not unless people are literally just standing their, picking their noses for minutes at a time.

It very much is, and most dungeons have players picking their noses during pulls. People don't realize just how fast a dungeon can be until they themselves perform great and get put in a group that performs just as good. If a dungeon can be done in 10 minutes, why make it 18?

[Vahlnir]

It very much is, and most dungeons have players picking their noses during pulls. People don't realize just how fast a dungeon can be until they themselves perform great and get put in a group that performs just as good. If a dungeon can be done in 10 minutes, why make it 18?

I'm all for fast, smooth dungeon runs. However, I would rather have a group that is slow and steady but ultimately finishes the race instead of a group that tries to go faster than they are capable of and results in multiple wipes, which wastes more time than the tank pulling slower. At the end of the day, only the healer and/or tank know their own capabilities. It is not my or anyone else's place to force them to go faster. They could be confronted about it, which they would be free to comply or not comply. Then it becomes a choice of either sucking it up, leaving or kicking the "problem" members. The last 2 could waste even more time if a disagreement is had. Sure, they could be kicked, but that's a bit of a jerk move...and also wastes more time than needed. In an attempt to get a faster tank, they most likely wasted at least 1-2 minutes trying to replace them, and that's after trying to get them to go faster which probably took a minute or two to sort out. So...that 5 minutes extra (seriously, it rarely takes longer than that with a slow tank) just turned into 6-7, if not more.

[ZedxKayn]

I'm all for fast, smooth dungeon runs. However, I would rather have a group that is slow and steady but ultimately finishes the race instead of a group that tries to go faster than they are capable of and results in multiple wipes, which wastes more time than the tank pulling slower. At the end of the day, only the healer and/or tank know their own capabilities. It is not my or anyone else's place to force them to go faster. They could be confronted about it, which they would be free to comply or not comply. Then it becomes a choice of either sucking it up, leaving or kicking the "problem" members. The last 2 could waste even more time if a disagreement is had. Sure, they could be kicked, but that's a bit of a jerk move...and also wastes more time than needed. In an attempt to get a faster tank, they most likely wasted at least 1-2 minutes trying to replace them, and that's after trying to get them to go faster which probably took a minute or two to sort out. So...that 5 minutes extra (seriously, it rarely takes longer than that with a slow tank) just turned into 6-7, if not more.

There's also the fun factor

AOEing 3 mobs instead of 8 isn't fun
Pressing literally nothing but art of war isn't fun
And I'm not about to do that for 17 minutes when I could land more satisfying AoEs or use more of my kit as a healer for 11 minutes
It could also be faster to kick a slow tank, single pull without a tank until one rejoins (it's usually rather fast, I always get a new tank in less than one pull personally), then finish with normal pulls.

[Ftail]

CTRL+F homie, CTRL+F. No one knows what kind of tools GMs have to but if malicious rescueing is reportable and taken seriously no reason they can't find something like the drop of a tank stance followed by a death across the whole dungeon or the ceasing of AOEs in a given time frame.

Also tbh how would someone remove their AOE combo and not notice from the very beginning? If it's really a hotbar issue, that wouldn't prevent them from trying to grab aggro off people with ranged and voke.

I've had a healer friend do way worse in a dungeon. I was once playing a DPS with my healer friend in Aurum Vale, and the tank wasn't doing AOE attacks properly to hold mobs and let my healer friend die at least 3 times. After the healers third death, the tank told my friend to stop doing DPS because he was pulling aggro from him. After that my healer friend freaked out on the tank and refused to heal him letting him die at least 5 times in retaliation, he stopped DPS'ing and only focused on healing, he kept his mouth shut and we all made it to the final boss room after having to revive the tank after every pull. The tank ended up reporting my healer friend for griefing, and he got in absolutely zero trouble for it.

Like I've said over and over again, GM's can't tell the difference between incompetence and malicious play style with a battle log. Sometimes you get tanks who don't know how to hold aggro with AOE combos because they are just that incompetent. People who do stuff maliciously like my friend should be punished, I've said this repeatedly, but your expectations of GM's getting justice is just way too high. There's a reason we don't get information back on what happens to the people we report.

[Mirhd]

It very much is, and most dungeons have players picking their noses during pulls. People don't realize just how fast a dungeon can be until they themselves perform great and get put in a group that performs just as good. If a dungeon can be done in 10 minutes, why make it 18?

It very much isn't. I won't say you haven't had super slow groups, as I'm sure that's happened at some point, but acting as if that's the norm/common is just willfully dishonest. Pulling two groups or w/e at a time doesn't result in a super slow run unless no one is using aoe... and I can count the number of times I've seen that on one hand.

I've noticed people on this forum tend to exaggerate things heavily, and it's almost always extremes with some people. Even my own weird experiences I've mentioned in the duty finder thread are a small, small number of runs I've had, hardly the norm. But sure, keep insisting 5 extra minutes (if even that. certainly not 10, for crying out loud) is the end of the world.

[Awha]

I will say this farming these tomes for the event has put into perspective how slow and annoying single pull tanks are and just how strong heals can be in certain content.

Either way this event has shown me the darker side of tanks and how petty they can be. I have had tanks that do not grab aggro if you pull extra mobs, if you pull the boss they stand around.

I have had healers that complain about pull size even though they can keep the tank alive.

I get they could be new uncomfortable etc . . . Still

[ZedxKayn]

It very much isn't. I won't say you haven't had super slow groups, as I'm sure that's happened at some point, but acting as if that's the norm/common is just willfully dishonest. Pulling two groups or w/e at a time doesn't result in a super slow run unless no one is using aoe... and I can count the number of times I've seen that on one hand.

I've noticed people on this forum tend to exaggerate things heavily, and it's almost always extremes with some people. Even my own weird experiences I've mentioned in the duty finder thread are a small, small number of runs I've had, hardly the norm. But sure, keep insisting 5 extra minutes (if even that. certainly not 10, for crying out loud) is the end of the world.

It is, 2 minutes is a gross understatement.

And you know, 5 extra minutes + 5 extra minutes + 5 extra minutes... and so on, it adds up, and by the time I've ran 3 slow dungeons, I could've ran 4 or 5 "normal" runs.
I don't care about an extra 5 minutes once or twice but it's gonna be way more than once or twice across my whole playtime.

[Mirhd]

It is, 2 minutes is a gross understatement.

And you know, 5 extra minutes + 5 extra minutes + 5 extra minutes... and so on, it adds up, and by the time I've ran 3 slow dungeons, I could've ran 4 or 5 "normal" runs.
I don't care about an extra 5 minutes once or twice but it's gonna be way more than once or twice across my whole playtime.

4 or 5 normal runs? Seriously? What are you expecting, world record speed running? Because that is absolutely not "normal", and certainly not a reasonable expectation going into a roulette.

We'll go with 5 extra minutes for the sake of argument, that you've run 4 dungeons, and that each run takes around 20 minutes. That would be maybe 1 extra dungeon. It can "add up", but it seriously isn't that big a deal. Again, you are playing with random people, and everything that may come with that - health issues that people may have, they've had a bad day at school/work/etc, and/or just want a chill run, whatever. I myself have wrist, elbow and shoulder pain (hello, years of computer use catching up to me!), and if someone were expecting me to preform at a high level constantly in a roulette of all things, I'd calmly suggest they form their own party, because they clearly have unrealistic expectations. I use the turbo controller function that Steam offers for quick time events for this very reason now because I just can't do it without pain anymore.

TL,DR: You want speed runs? Use the party finder tool. Contrary to what you may think, superduper fast runs aren't the norm, nor is it reasonable to expect them.

[ZedxKayn]

4 or 5 normal runs? Seriously? What are you expecting, world record speed running? Because that is absolutely not "normal", and certainly not a reasonable expectation going into a roulette.

We'll go with 5 extra minutes for the sake of argument, that you've run 4 dungeons, and that each run takes around 20 minutes. That would be maybe 1 extra dungeon. It can "add up", but it seriously isn't that big a deal. Again, you are playing with random people, and everything that may come with that - health issues that people may have, they've had a bad day at school/work/etc, and/or just want a chill run, whatever. I myself have wrist, elbow and shoulder pain (hello, years of computer use catching up to me!), and if someone were expecting me to preform at a high level constantly in a roulette of all things, I'd calmly suggest they form their own party, because they clearly have unrealistic expectations. I use the turbo controller function that Steam offers for quick time events for this very reason now because I just can't do it without pain anymore.

TL,DR: You want speed runs? Use the party finder tool. Contrary to what you may think, superduper fast runs aren't the norm, nor is it reasonable to expect them.

Anything above 14~15mins enters sluggish territory.
Expecting wall to wall pulls is not wanting speedruns. Expecting people to press their buttons is not unrealistic or expecting high level, it's expecting the basics. If people just press their buttons there is no reason for a run to take anymore than that amount of time, it should take less.

[Awha]

4 or 5 normal runs? Seriously? What are you expecting, world record speed running? Because that is absolutely not "normal", and certainly not a reasonable expectation going into a roulette.

We'll go with 5 extra minutes for the sake of argument, that you've run 4 dungeons, and that each run takes around 20 minutes. That would be maybe 1 extra dungeon. It can "add up", but it seriously isn't that big a deal. Again, you are playing with random people, and everything that may come with that - health issues that people may have, they've had a bad day at school/work/etc, and/or just want a chill run, whatever. I myself have wrist, elbow and shoulder pain (hello, years of computer use catching up to me!), and if someone were expecting me to preform at a high level constantly in a roulette of all things, I'd calmly suggest they form their own party, because they clearly have unrealistic expectations. I use the turbo controller function that Steam offers for quick time events for this very reason now because I just can't do it without pain anymore.

TL,DR: You want speed runs? Use the party finder tool. Contrary to what you may think, superduper fast runs aren't the norm, nor is it reasonable to expect them.

To be fair couldn't the same be said for those who have things that may hold them back shouldn't they use party finder also?

The same argument can be used for the other side.