It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[Granyala]

As well, and I can tell you this as a fact because I personally know WoW GMs, SE likely know that if they do permit mods of any kind then their support teams will get customers asking about it. Blizzard GMs regularly get tickets from players asking for help with mods, even though they're not even made by Blizzard. They also get tickets from players who have issues running the game smoothly and the culprit is sometimes a mod. I can see why some game companies would rather avoid this.

You are confusing UI-addons with client-mods but yes, people would run to CS if they didn't manage to get a mod working, aye.

They can also be used for harassment if the mods allow more lewd visual content than the game or the player's actual outfit permits.

Eeeh.. WHAT? How is that harassment? That doesn't compute at all.
Though you did basically describe 2/3rs of the currently existing client modifications. Most are centered around lewding stuff.

That is why I am a huge fan of mods despite the negative, they do allow for more player control and I get why the devs cannot allow such things since sadly as gamers we cannot be trusted to not break something, but for me that sense of player control is worth the risk or this case the conversation.

Yeah, mods are awesome in pretty much any game.
Man how I would love a mod that removed the pointless big and honking gold text from stuff like quest acceptance, retainers, fates, party joins etc.

Also.... my kitten desperately wants to curl up in bed ... WITHOUT HAVING TO WEAR FRIGGIN SANDALS!

[Penthea]

Eeeh.. WHAT? How is that harassment? That doesn't compute at all.
Though you did basically describe 2/3rs of the currently existing client modifications. Most are centered around lewding stuff.

I know of a person who got harassed because someone posted screenshots of their character that was made nude by a mod, and some were saying some really creepy stuff about the player. It actually started a massive fight in their guild.

I know someone else who got harassed because their gear (no transmog/glam at the time) was quite revealing and some people thought it permitted them to say some really awful things about them, which unfortunately mostly happened on a third party site (where screenshots taken from uncompromising angles were posted) so Blizzard couldn't do anything about it because there was almost no proof they could access from their own servers.

I personally had some people say some really weird and intrusive things to me because my gear (again no transmog/glam at the time) revealed skin in the places that they liked. It was over quickly with GM intervention but it didn't happen only once.

I have been playing mmorpgs for a very very long time. There are unfortunately a lot of weirdos out there. And some of them will use whatever tools they have to engage in their creepy activities.

EDIT: it is because of the above experiences that I would only be able to tolerate glam removal if the glams were replaced by modest gear. Some combat gear is super revealing. Let's not have a situation in which someone in full plate is unglammed without their knowledge in to the shisui gear, and some creep decides to have fun with screenshots.

[Granyala]

There are unfortunately a lot of weirdos out there. And some of them will use whatever tools they have to engage in their creepy activities.

True dat, my Draenei got hit on multiple times, one even asked for a IRL telephone number. I'd never consider that harassment though.
If s/o steps out of line -> GM and that will be the end of it.

I still don't get how s/o can be harassed with a screenshot that has obvious client modifications visible. Every sane person would automatically disqualify such a screenshot.
Oh yes I still remember black mageweave and other low level skimpy stuff (esp. early TBC, Blizard seems to have lost it's appetite for that later on).

My Draenei often wore really crappy gear during leveling because she refused to wear the better (but skimpy) gear.
She always said: I'm a priestess, not a girl for sale.

EDIT: it is because of the above experiences that I would only be able to tolerate glam removal if the glams were replaced by modest gear. Some combat gear is super revealing. Let's not have a situation in which someone in full plate is unglammed without their knowledge in to the shisui gear, and some creep decides to have fun with screenshots.

Yep, that was one of my worries as well. Not because I am afraid of some Internet hero but because I simply do not want others to see Ifalna in revealing outfits. Seeing her in that way is reserved for a select few people she intimately trusts.

[Penthea]

I still don't get how s/o can be harassed with a screenshot that has obvious client modifications visible. Every sane person would automatically disqualify such a screenshot.
Oh yes I still remember black mageweave and other low level skimpy stuff (esp. early TBC, Blizard seems to have lost it's appetit for that later on).

Then I will go into more detail.

So the second player I mentioned, who got harassed over screenshots taken from uncompromising angles in revealing gear, at a time when transmog/glam did not exist.

First of all the screenshots were cropped and/or blacked out any names and chatlogs that showed who actually took the screenshot, but left the name of the subject above their head. So it was clear who the figure was in the screenshot, but impossible to tell who took it. The player knew who it was because they were on a forum together, but they had no way to prove to Blizzard that the person who owned that forum account was the same player they were accusing of harrasment.

The person in the screenshots was very shy so some people thought it would be hilarious to talk about how she is a closet skank because of her outfit in the game. They said some really sexually explicit things about her and then mused about what they would do to her character. It went on for several weeks. Then a rumour started that she was the one posting the screenshots herself in order to seek attention.

Because she could not prove to Blizzard who was behind the harassment, the only thing she could do to escape the situation was to quit the game or start again on another character. At the time server transfer, name change, race and gender change did not exist. If you wanted to be someone new and go somewhere new, you had to create another character.

While this is an extreme situation the point is that these things do occur. I'm not comfortable with the idea of glam removal defaulting to the equipped gear, racial gear or AF gear because some of it can be very revealing, especially on females. If a player chooses to not show certain skin, then no other player should be able to see it. So this is why I say if glam removal comes to the game it should put players into modest outfits, to reduce the chances of a situation like the above happening.

And no I do not take issue with players who choose to glam in revealing gear. That is their choice and I respect it. And I would like others to respect my choice to not to dress in that way.

[Granyala]

The person in the screenshots was very shy so some people thought it would be hilarious to talk about how she is a closet skank because of her outfit in the game. They said some really sexually explicit things about her and then mused about what they would do to her character. It went on for several weeks. Then a rumour started that she was the one posting the screenshots herself in order to seek attention.
Because she could not prove to Blizzard who was behind the harassment, the only thing she could do to escape the situation was to quit the game

If a player chooses to not show certain skin, then no other player should be able to see it.

Hmm, any respectable forum would have banned the offenders. In this case the persons posting their fantasies and the screenshots.
Yes Blizzard can't do anything in such a case, because to them it's all hearsay. The people in her guild were idiots. Even if she posted the screens for attention seeking, I still don't see a problem with "revealing clothes" in a PEGI-12 game. I mean, there is nothing to see there.

Instead of quitting the game, wouldn't have a different choice of ingame attire been the much easier way? After all, yes skimpy stuff exists in low level (even in high level AQ robes etc) but there was always a choice. As long as she wan't a cutting edge raider (fat chance with that personality) it wouldn't have mattered.

Completely agreed on the second part. But IMHO that also goes for the reverse. If a player chooses to display skin, no other player should be able to cover it up.

[Penthea]

Hmm, any respectable forum would have banned the offenders. In this case the persons posting their fantasies and the screenshots.
Yes Blizzard can't do anything in such a case, because to them it's all hearsay. The people in her guild were idiots. Even if she posted the screens for attention seeking, I still don't see a problem with "revealing clothes" in a PEGI-12 game. I mean, there is nothing to see there.

From what I recall, at this point it was a very long time ago, it was a forum made by some mutual friends between the victim and the offenders. It wasn't some big organised fan site or anything. There were a lot of players there but point being it wasn't funded or managed by a company, just ordinary players.

Instead of quitting the game, wouldn't have a different choice of ingame attire been the much easier way? After all, yes skimpy stuff exists in low level (even in high level AQ robes etc) but there was always a choice. As long as she wan't a cutting edge raider (fat chance with that personality) it wouldn't have mattered.

She wore that gear because the stats were good. She didn't really care that it was revealing until the screenshot harassment started. She had no idea that screenshots of her were being taken (because you had no way to know and from what I understand you still have no way to know). She did get different gear but by then the damage had been done.

She didn't quit the game. She simply shelved the character, started fresh on a new server and cut herself off from everyone who was in the forum where the harassment occurred. She didn't even tell her guildmates where she went. Last I heard of her she didn't have that sort of trouble again, thankfully. When I last spoke with her, which was years after the harassment, she was raiding in a really great guild and was having a good time. She did recover but the harassment did make her shy nature worse for a long time.

Completely agreed on the second part. But IMHO that also goes for the reverse. If a player chooses to display skin, no other player should be able to cover it up.

I completely agree with this myself. I just wanted to make it clear that I hold nothing against those who do enjoy having skimpy outfits. I just don't want them on my character.

The closest things I have to skimpy outfits are some 2B dress glams (I don't use the matching legs because I don't fancy flashing my knickers and the curves around it to the world, and as we know the curves are very extra with the matching legs) and a swimsuit glam because our fc house is located right beside a body of water. Most of the time I dress pretty modestly as far as revealing skin goes.

[Granyala]

The closest things I have to skimpy outfits are some 2B dress glams (I don't use the matching legs because I don't fancy flashing my knickers and the curves around it to the world, and as we know the curves are very extra with the matching legs)

I find the concept of a changing butt depending on clothing to be a wee bit disturbing, so I'd never use the pants myself. What can you do about fanservice eh?
I do like to wear long skirts / dresses and shorter boots, so when running around, occasionally there is a wee bit of lower leg visible. \O/

What do you guys even get onto in these games where this is even a thing? I have literally never once had to deal with player behavior like this. "Quit the game". A lot of people need to stop treating games like this like second life, but literally a "second life". Ridiculous. It's a game.

Do you refer to the harassment or the erotic roleplay part?
I've never seen the former to such a degree either (in almost 20yrs of gaming) but I did encounter E-RP a number of times. Can be fun if both sides are in the mood for it.