It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[Awha]

Because I lose control over how my character is displayed on the screens of a significant portion of the playerbase.
Simple as that.

That affects me, esp as a role player.

So the statement "nobody is affected" is simply: false.

In the grand scheme what are the chances of you finding out the person has the feature enabled? At large it would require you to make the assumption that most people will use the feature for it to impact you personally.

[Granyala]

In the grand scheme what are the chances of you finding out the person has the feature enabled? At large it would require you to make the assumption that most people will use the feature for it to impact you personally.

Well there is no way to know unless people start talking about it. It's the same situation with the mods right now, I am sure, me wearing the lv80 WHM class gear, I will be half naked on some screens, aye.

Still I don't want to increase the number of players that view Ifalna differently than I do, so I voice my concerns against such an option, as is my right. I don't have to convince you, you don't have to convince me. It's up to SE to decide what is best.

How close are y'all's cameras that you can even see what other people are wearing? If I'm in a duty I'm so zoomed out/focusing on the game that I can't be bothered paying attention to what glamour someone has on.

In duties, typically max range.
In idle times, so that Ifalnas feet touch the bottom of the game window. After all, I want to see my cat and other chars.

And do try to come up with a better argument than "I want them to see my glamour."

Erm no?
Wanting others to see your glamour is like half the reason the feature exists in the first place.
The other half would be to see it yourself.

[Awha]

Well there is no way to know unless people start talking about it. It's the same situation with the mods right now, I am sure, me wearing the lv80 WHM class gear, I will be half naked on some screens, aye.

Still I don't want to increase the number of players that view Ifalna differently than I do, so I voice my concerns against such an option, as is my right. I don't have to convince you, you don't have to convince me. It's up to SE to decide what is best.



In duties, typically max range.
In idle times, so that Ifalnas feet touch the bottom of the game window. After all, I want to see my cat and other chars.

I am not trying to say you do not have a right to voice your dislike for an idea, it just seems like for a lot of people the dislike from the idea comes from a place of pure emotion which makes the idea come off personal attack on another persons choice which I do not think is fair to the idea itself. In the end I do strongly believe if people looked past the personal aspect of someone not seeing their character the way they desire, and just approached it from the perspective of more options that would allow the player base to adjust their in game experience, far less people would be against the idea out of what appears to be spite. Not saying this is why you are against the idea, just seems as if that is the underlying reason.

Oh yeah, my intention is not to come off as personally attacking anyone. But I do try to speak hard truths at times which might come across that way. Either way, I don't have to agree with those vehemently supporting the idea. I'm just vehemently against it for any and all of the reasons I've given. I would also like to point out, again, that I started out as impartial. I really did. What changed? Ridiculous posts for and against. Were it not for those I might have actually wound up on the side supporting this option, because on its own I don't have an issue with it. I suppose it is like you you said, spite. That might not be entirely fair but it is what it is. I was driven to it. Do I think this feature is unnecessary? Yeah. But its addition probably wouldn't affect me, so it would likely be a non issue. I just think it's a waste of time. People disagree with that, and that's fine. They have a right to. I also have the right to disagree in return.

I agree people are free to disagree with others, and the aspect of waste of resources is a fair, while I disagree with the claim it would be a waste due us having other features that allow players to have control over soical aspects of the game, that is just my view of the matter. My issue is when others make it seem like it is a personal attack on ones choice, or how others many pages ago made it seem like it was inherently wrong due to potential bigotry in nature. That is all I was trying to convey.

[Vahlnir]

I am not trying to say you do not have a right to voice your dislike for an idea, it just seems like for a lot of people the dislike from the idea comes from a place of pure emotion which makes the idea come off personal attack on another persons choice which I do not think is fair to the idea itself. That is all.

Oh yeah, my intention is not to come off as personally attacking anyone. But I do try to speak hard truths at times which might come across that way. Either way, I don't have to agree with those vehemently supporting the idea. I'm just vehemently against it for any and all of the reasons I've given. I would also like to point out, again, that I started out as impartial. I really did. What changed? Ridiculous posts for and against. Were it not for those I might have actually wound up on the side supporting this option, because on its own I don't have an issue with it. I suppose it is like you you said, spite. That might not be entirely fair but it is what it is. I was driven to it. Do I think this feature is unnecessary? Yeah. But its addition probably wouldn't affect me, so it would likely be a non issue. I just think it's a waste of time. People disagree with that, and that's fine. They have a right to. I also have the right to disagree in return.

[Arillyn]

I'm still waiting for an answer from earlier on how people would resolve the gear you don't want to see that isn't glamoured but is real battle gear that is a bikini or a dress on a male character. How do you propose that would be addressed? And blacklisting gear you don't like really doesn't seem to be a viable option to me. I mean WHY in the world would the devs agree to do that so the battle gear they took the time to create can be blacklisted so people don't have to see it? That just makes no sense.

I mean I really do understand where both sides are coming from - some glamours people don't like to see. I get it. However, there is BATTLE gear, not even glamours, that fit some descriptions of gear that some people said they don't want to see on other characters. I mean why don't you just ask the devs "please stop making gear that shows skin like bikini gear or stop making caster/healer gear that looks like a dress or skirt on male characters."

[kujoestars]

I feel like the people for the idea are at least as, if not more, vehemently charged about what displays on a screen. Personally, while I dislike the idea, I wouldn’t really be that pissed if SE actually implements it, provided they’ve figured out a good solution that doesn’t hit all the problems people have already pointed out.

As for the guy who basically went “lol, by ur logic, we don’t need blacklists or profanity filters uwu”, that’s a false equivalent considering blacklists serve as harassment protection while profanity filters serve to control content that SE can’t manage (and not to mention is LOADS simpler to code; just stick every cuss words you know in).

Glams ON THE OTHER HAND, are all content created by SE. Everything is there because they want everyone to see and experience it properly. It’s completely different from players and their words, which are out of SE’s control.

And no, a glam that offends you isn’t “harassment”, so blacklist logic doesn’t work here. “Sexual themes” is listed on the tin, people. Frankly, if you can’t handle a bit of PG-13 undies, this isn’t the game for you. :1

Regardless, this still leaves the issue of wtf is the hypothetical filter supposed to do if someone is wearing the offending gear instead of glamming. I cannot see any solution that would not step on any supposed hyperperceptive person’s toes.

Naked? Defeats the point. Generic shirt/leggings? Gonna bug someone, I guarantee it. Big censor blur? That sounds like it’s going to be very visually unpleasant even if you ignore the sensory issue (which btw, I have where games are concerned; my game blurs on me in highly visual duties already and OUCH).

There’s really no winning with a glam filter because SOMEONE is going to be displeased.

And it’s for that reason I highly doubt SE is going bother at all with this. You can’t please everyone because censoring subjective fashion is not as simple as censoring objective curse words with question marks.

[Lauront]

As for the guy who basically went “lol, by ur logic, we don’t need blacklists or profanity filters uwu”, that’s a false equivalent considering blacklists serve as harassment protection while profanity filters serve to control content that SE can’t manage (and not to mention is LOADS simpler to code; just stick every cuss words you know in).

...but you could in effect just ignore them. They are just words on a screen, so if it's so trivial to simply look away and ignore things, the same approach could be taken with them. The ostensible purpose may be "protection" from harassment, but in the end what things offend others is a very subjective matter altogether. Yet it seems acceptable to dismiss concerns about not liking certain looks other players stick to... but simple words on a screen, oh no for those we need filters and blacklists. More like a false dichotomy than equivalence.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You say it's hard to code - what is your evidence that it would be difficult to implement something that just blocks out a glamour? I'd like to hear from the developers what their take on this is from a resource/effort standpoint, as most people here are just guessing based on what they think would be involved.

As for what form it takes, it really is up to the end user whether what it does is worse than the glamour. Not an insurmountable problem in the slightest, in any case.

[kujoestars]

-snip-

For starters, you only actually see words if you’re interacting with someone or standing near them when they say stuff out loud, or if you’re associated with them like in an FC/Party/Linkshell/etc. So, yeah, you can legit avoid it by looking away or leaving. But you seem to be conveniently ignoring what I said about players and their words being out of SE’s control?

Gear is in SE’s control so they have no need to put in filters because that’s exactly what they want people to see whether people glamour or not. You see THEIR content. Words on the other hand are not things they can control so they have to put in filters lest it become associated with them. Otherwise the filter would be applicable to NPC lines; whatever is an acceptable PG-13 curse is already decided by SE and therefore what they show you is what they want you to see.

In that same vein, if SE is letting people cross-dress or go nude, it’s because they intended it. Profanity on the other hand, comes purely from players.

On coding, did you even freaking read my entire post or did you just cherry pick things you know how to argue with? Because neither you nor anyone else have actually provided a solution that isn’t going to end up displeasing someone. And if you know anything about even basic coding, you’d know filtering words is a completely different animal from filtering art. Just look at Tumblr and it’s horrible disaster of a “Safe Mode”.

Heck, I regularly see awful fetish art and even some nsfw on Google images slipping through the cracks. That’s exactly how impossible it is to filter images perfectly. First of all, for “block specific gear”, you’d be relying on tags, which are, you guessed it! Words! And second, for “block individual glams” it would get pretty taxing on a server if it has to track every save state of every person who’s blocked specific outfits.

People can get away with mods because mods don’t affect the server at large. But if the server is what’s micromanaging what people see to the same degree, that’s going to be hell on server resources.

I also legit inserted generic outfit as a possibility and said that people are still not going to like whatever it is. Short of junking the whole set, you’re not going to be able to guarantee it won’t look jarring af. And do y’all REALLY want to throw out babies with bathwaters just to avoid one (1) piece of the glam? Answer honestly.

Best alternate solution I can think of is replacing nude models with simply clothed models so that when you go naked, you see clothes just like when you have retainers naked. But then that has the same issue of looking jarring.

Anyways, I’m just gonna say this topic is stupid and needs to die. If SE can figure out how to implement this and willing to, fine then. If not, it’s ain’t ever gonna happen. Let’s just freaking agree to disagree and drop it because we’ve beaten this dead horse to paste.

[Granyala]

I am not trying to say you do not have a right to voice your dislike for an idea, it just seems like for a lot of people the dislike from the idea comes from a place of pure emotion which makes the idea come off personal attack on another persons choice which I do not think is fair to the idea itself. In the end I do strongly believe if people looked past the personal aspect of someone not seeing their character the way they desire, and just approached it from the perspective of more options that would allow the player base to adjust their in game experience, far less people would be against the idea out of what appears to be spite. Not saying this is why you are against the idea, just seems as if that is the underlying reason.

Why do we dress a certain way, both IRL and in game (environmental aspects excluded)?
Because we want to elicit emotional responses in both, ourself and others. There is no logical reason to follow popular fashion trends, setting your own trend, etc.
So of course, any arguments relating that topic will be emotion based.

As others have already stated: there is no detrimental gameplay related effect of any kind here.

I am not against this "out of spite". I generally don't like people appearing differently on my screen compared to others.
That's also a reason why I would not use any gear related mods because I would no longer see characters the way they were intended to be seen by other players.

I'm still waiting for an answer from earlier on how people would resolve the gear you don't want to see that isn't glamoured but is real battle gear that is a bikini or a dress on a male character.

I think the most popular option was to create a base template, class based and replace any char gear with that.
Basically you would play clone wars, with every WAR looking exactly the same.

This would require minimal DEV effort and could be done client side, so no server strain either.

[Arillyn]

I think the most popular option was to create a base template, class based and replace any char gear with that.
Basically you would play clone wars, with every WAR looking exactly the same.

This would require minimal DEV effort and could be done client side, so no server strain either.

Yea that may work. But the more this thread goes on and the more I think about it the more I am coming down on just no.

Before I was like "meh, I wouldn't use it, but whatever," then I was like "well, I would rather resources didn't go to this, people can look away, but still meh if SE implements it" to now I'm more "this is getting stupid to me, now people want to replace actual battle gear because they don't want to see that either? that's pretty insulting and disrespectful to the devs who designed it". So, I'm coming down more on just no.