Lack of End Game Content

[linay]

And that is perfectly fine, just as is the suggestion that more could be done regarding end game content.

Everyone is going to consume content at different rates. And some have different tastes in content. But between this thread and the dungeon design one, its pretty clear to me that there is a demand for more challenging and varied battle content across all difficulty tiers, as well as those that would like a more robust endgame scene. Which both could be addressed together.

While many may be happy with the current state of the game, ARR's initial release felt more robust to me on this front. People are willing to give the devs time to figure out the best way to develop a robust endgame for XIV, hence the thread, but eventually their patience will run out, or competition will beat SE to the punch. Time isn't always in the Dev's favor.

Edit: Should also note that a persons speed of content consumption itself is not indicative of a lack of content. Just that those that consume content faster will encounter a lack of content faster. The two are not directly related beyond the fact they both deal with content. IE the book War and Peace has the same amount of content irregardless of if it takes you one day or one year to read it. So people consuming all of XIV's content in one day or one month is not the underlying issue. Its the total amount of content available to fill a specific area of game play that some feel is lacking.

I think that's a fair assessment. It just depends on whether the developers feel there is data to back that up for them to take action. We see the complaints, of course, but if the developers are happy with the amount/type/frequency of content they are currently producing, then it would take a significant player base reaction than a complaint on the forum to change that. That said, a complaint on the forum at least may make the developer aware of things to watch out for, so it's still potentially useful in that way.

[Millybonk]

I watched the FFXIVARR documentary last night and the director/producer said he doesn't want to create a game where you feel pressured to log in every day. He is ok with you just coming back to the game every time there is a patch/expansion with stuff you want, play through it and go chill, cause people have lives and he doesn't want the game to get in the way of that.

And thank god for that. Last thing i'd want is that cancerous AP system that WoW has. I hate it with a passion. I literally feel like i'm in a hamster wheel. It is so slow and unrewarding and it made me burn out on Legion. No to AP systems. Worst system ever.

If you make an end-game system, please make something like SWTOR's crates of goodies. It's a complementary gear acquisition method + cosmetics.

You're mixing different things into one amalgam:

• With the new tomestone there's yet again a slight pressure to at least do 5 expert roulettes to cap them for the week if you care do keep up with the current equipment paths
• FF14 is a sub game: if you've done the MSQ and unlocked all dungeons there's not really much more in terms of endgame except doing those 3 endgame dungeons or Ex/Savage modes of raids you've already seen, or the usual of crafting/leveling/misc. activities, though none of them endgame in terms of DoM/DoW activites - which means at point X you're still paying for a sub with no new content until the next major patch, but you can only cancel your sub at point Y/or have to wait until your time from a game time card runs out

It's an actual sad design paradigm among MMORPGs in which new content is encapsulated and detached from all previous content, and once you're done with the newest part you have to wait for the next one to release, as there's just nothing new to do in the current part but repetitions of content you've already done and additionally there's close to 0 incentive for a max level character to go back to previous zones or doing previous content as there are no usable rewards in terms of equip/crafting mats.

FF14 has a massive list of dungeons/trials/raids, but my lvl 80 WHM has no reason to visit them but to see them once or for glamors/mounts, as they reward nothing I could actually use and my Expert roulette only contains the latest 3 dungeons.

Where's a lvl 80 hard-mode Aurum Vale with difficult pulls and e.g. constant poison damage + hard-hitting mobs as a healing challenge?

I really don't get it: what's the point of developing such a massive list of instanced content when it's only used during leveling + as a potential draw during a roulette?

[linay]

I really don't get it: what's the point of developing such a massive list of instanced content when it's only used during leveling + as a potential draw during a roulette?

The point is the story. Each instanced content is part of the story that you go through once. Repeating it is just gameplay reason to help others go through it as well or for gear/glamour/mount/achievement or maybe challenge in the case of Ultimate (and even Savage for some people).

[Iscah]

FF14 has a massive list of dungeons/trials/raids, but my lvl 80 WHM has no reason to visit them but to see them once or for glamors/mounts, as they reward nothing I could actually use and my Expert roulette only contains the latest 3 dungeons.

I really don't get it: what's the point of developing such a massive list of instanced content when it's only used during leveling + as a potential draw during a roulette?

With so many classes, for someone leveling all of them then they'll be seeing a lot of those dungeons.

You can also earn some amount of endgame tomes from leveling roulette (and most other roulettes) if you do it at Lv80 - a much more varied way of reaching your weekly tome cap instead of just running the three expert dungeons. You can do raids, trials, leveling and alliances to work your way towards that quota - or you can just let it slip for this week. It's only a treadmill after all: do content to get gear to do content....

Ultimately though, it's an RPG, made by a company whose primary focus is single-player RPGs, and with a lot of that mindset behind it. In a single-player RPG you often don't even redo dungeons, unless you need to go back for a later objective or grinding - you just work your way through it once, and move on to the next part of the story.

[Millybonk]

With so many classes, for someone leveling all of them then they'll be seeing a lot of those dungeons.

You can also earn some amount of endgame tomes from leveling roulette (and most other roulettes) if you do it at Lv80 - a much more varied way of reaching your weekly tome cap instead of just running the three expert dungeons. You can do raids, trials, leveling and alliances to work your way towards that quota - or you can just let it slip for this week. It's only a treadmill after all: do content to get gear to do content....

Ultimately though, it's an RPG, made by a company whose primary focus is single-player RPGs, and with a lot of that mindset behind it. In a single-player RPG you often don't even redo dungeons, unless you need to go back for a later objective or grinding - you just work your way through it once, and move on to the next part of the story.

Using such a non-precise wording isn't helping your argument:

• Using leveling roulette on a lvl 80 is a waste if you level any other job
• Any other roulette is only useful as long as you need Poetics/Goetia: if you've got everything you want with those currencies doing those roulettes on lvl 80 is pointless, hence every instance in those roulettes doesn't offer you anything anymore and are thus obsolete
• After that it only comes down to which roulettes you want to do to cap Phantasmagoria - and without the tomestone slapped on top of the roulettes no one would be doing any of the instances in the pool except the later ShB ones, as they reward them on their own, which was my point to begin with -> instances become obsolete the moment they don't reward you with items you can use at max level; additionally you'd be opting for the path of least resistance to cap them, which would be 5x Experte roulette in most cases, so only 3 dungeons
• Almost forgot: once you're capped for the week there is actually nothing to do anymore for 2 days. Yes you could still do content which rewards Phantasmagoria, but why bother investing time when you can't collect additional tomestones?

As for the point about RPG:

• If the scope of FF14 is indeed on the single-player aspect it's scary how much resources are wasted into developing instanced party content, which gets deprecated and never visited again once a new expansion/new instances/new tomestone are here
• Depending on the flavor of the RPG you go back to farm specific areas/bosses for drops e.g. Diablo 2 or re-visit areas you were too weak to do earlier e.g. Gothic I/II
• Unlike FF14 a RPG is a one-time purchase, can be modded if it's popular enough and has a replay-value. The main replay-value of FF14 is watching the MSQ again in your room or replay selected instances you like due to atmosphere/soundtrack/boss mechanics

[linay]

If the scope of FF14 is indeed on the single-player aspect it's scary how much resources are wasted into developing instanced party content, which gets deprecated and never visited again once a new expansion/new instances/new tomestone are here

People are still running them regardless. Whether it be via roulettes, party finder, or just a callout for help in people's respective communities (FC, FL, LS, NN, random shout, etc.).

[Millybonk]

People are still running them regardless. Whether it be via roulettes, party finder, or just a callout for help in people's respective communities (FC, FL, LS, NN, random shout, etc.).

The "doing them regardless" looks like really strong argument, but a closer look reveals that:

• A. People run them as a consequence of doing roulettes at lvl 80 to get a certain kind of tomestone, which means if you don't need those tomestone you won't be running those roulettes on your lvl 80 character
• B. Every non-ShB instanced content is mainly done to see it once/help someone/glamor/mount drops etc., as they reward nothing a lvl 80 can use in terms of equipment or crafting mats

Right now my lvl 80 WHM has nothing to do as I did the MSQ, capped Phantasmagoria for this week and I currently don't care for Ex/savage.

If I wouldn't be doing daily ARR Beast Tribes I would've been unsubbing by now, as there is no content left at the endgame for me until the next patch.

[linay]

The "doing them regardless" looks like really strong argument, but a closer look reveals that:

• A. People run them as a consequence of doing roulettes at lvl 80 to get a certain kind of tomestone, which means if you don't need those tomestone you won't be running those roulettes on your lvl 80 character
• B. Every non-ShB instanced content is mainly done to see it once/help someone/glamor/mount drops etc., as they reward nothing a lvl 80 can use in terms of equipment or crafting mats

Right now my lvl 80 WHM has nothing to do as I did the MSQ, capped Phantasmagoria for this week and I currently don't care for Ex/savage.

If I wouldn't be doing daily ARR Beast Tribes I would've been unsubbing by now, as there is no content left at the endgame for me until the next patch.

Whether or not there is anything to do is for every player to decide (the same thing with whether or not to unsubscribe). There is nothing to argue in that regard as I'm not going to dictate what another player should do.

The point here is that the multiple instances there are in the game don't go to waste. Every time you do a leveling roulette, for example, either to level another job on the same character or to gain more tomestone or to help someone else, you can potentially still get to run Sastasha, the very first dungeon in this game. That might not even be an option in another MMO except maybe helping someone else run an instance.

Leveling a new job and you can get Sastasha. Finished with your daily roulette and you can get Sastasha the next day. Finished with your weekly cap and you can get Sastasha the next week. Finished with tomestone gear and you can get Sastasha the next raid tier with new tomestone. Finished with the expansion and you can get Sastasha the next expansion.

Of course, you can also choose not to run leveling roulette because you don't think it's worth it, but plenty of people do, so all the duties in that roulette will potentially be used at any given day.

[Hawklaser]

The point here is that the multiple instances there are in the game don't go to waste. Every time you do a leveling roulette, for example, either to level another job on the same character or to gain more tomestone or to help someone else, you can potentially still get to run Sastasha, the very first dungeon in this game. That might not even be an option in another MMO except maybe helping someone else run an instance.

While Sastasha doesn't go to waste thanks to being included in the duty roulettes, it doesn't magically make it endgame content either.

Though filler content aside, I do still think the primary culprit of the lack of content complaints is due to missing challenging and varied battle content for the current level cap. (Its why I'm patiently waiting on NG+.)

Ultimately, it is probably due to some odd gaps in the difficulty thanks to only one of two difficulty sliders really seeming to being used much. We got the what I would call the professionalism slider (normal, extreme, savage, ultimate) and the generic progression slider. The professionalism slider very cleary gets used and can very quickly tell as it slides one way or the other. The generic progression slider seems to have gotten stuck or forgotten about somewhere on the low end. ARR you could tell the general difficulty went up slowly across the story but also didn't feel like it was crossing into the next professional tier. The recent expansions have not had that feel to them.

When done right this creates a nice nearly smooth difficulty curve. When done wrong you get an odd stair step/cliff difficulty curve. The stair/cliff curves also tend to have a lack of content or rushed feel to them.

[Millybonk]

Whether or not there is anything to do is for every player to decide (the same thing with whether or not to unsubscribe). There is nothing to argue in that regard as I'm not going to dictate what another player should do.

The point here is that the multiple instances there are in the game don't go to waste. Every time you do a leveling roulette, for example, either to level another job on the same character or to gain more tomestone or to help someone else, you can potentially still get to run Sastasha, the very first dungeon in this game. That might not even be an option in another MMO except maybe helping someone else run an instance.

Leveling a new job and you can get Sastasha. Finished with your daily roulette and you can get Sastasha the next day. Finished with your weekly cap and you can get Sastasha the next week. Finished with tomestone gear and you can get Sastasha the next raid tier with new tomestone. Finished with the expansion and you can get Sastasha the next expansion.

Of course, you can also choose not to run leveling roulette because you don't think it's worth it, but plenty of people do, so all the duties in that roulette will potentially be used at any given day.

What should I call this mode of argumentation you're using here?

I gave you specifics about

• How limited lvl 80 content is: 3 lvl 80 dungeons, 3 trials up to lvl 80, 1 raid, Ex/savage
• How every non-ShB instance is only relevant due to the tomestones slapped on top of roulettes - and if you don't need those tomestone or a capped for the week all those roulettes + its pool of instanced content becomes instantly obsolete

and you're like "Every player has to decide if there's anything to do" while tunnel-visioning on leveling roulette.

Are you afraid of facts?