Lack of End Game Content

[Millybonk]

With so many classes, for someone leveling all of them then they'll be seeing a lot of those dungeons.

You can also earn some amount of endgame tomes from leveling roulette (and most other roulettes) if you do it at Lv80 - a much more varied way of reaching your weekly tome cap instead of just running the three expert dungeons. You can do raids, trials, leveling and alliances to work your way towards that quota - or you can just let it slip for this week. It's only a treadmill after all: do content to get gear to do content....

Ultimately though, it's an RPG, made by a company whose primary focus is single-player RPGs, and with a lot of that mindset behind it. In a single-player RPG you often don't even redo dungeons, unless you need to go back for a later objective or grinding - you just work your way through it once, and move on to the next part of the story.

Using such a non-precise wording isn't helping your argument:

• Using leveling roulette on a lvl 80 is a waste if you level any other job
• Any other roulette is only useful as long as you need Poetics/Goetia: if you've got everything you want with those currencies doing those roulettes on lvl 80 is pointless, hence every instance in those roulettes doesn't offer you anything anymore and are thus obsolete
• After that it only comes down to which roulettes you want to do to cap Phantasmagoria - and without the tomestone slapped on top of the roulettes no one would be doing any of the instances in the pool except the later ShB ones, as they reward them on their own, which was my point to begin with -> instances become obsolete the moment they don't reward you with items you can use at max level; additionally you'd be opting for the path of least resistance to cap them, which would be 5x Experte roulette in most cases, so only 3 dungeons
• Almost forgot: once you're capped for the week there is actually nothing to do anymore for 2 days. Yes you could still do content which rewards Phantasmagoria, but why bother investing time when you can't collect additional tomestones?

As for the point about RPG:

• If the scope of FF14 is indeed on the single-player aspect it's scary how much resources are wasted into developing instanced party content, which gets deprecated and never visited again once a new expansion/new instances/new tomestone are here
• Depending on the flavor of the RPG you go back to farm specific areas/bosses for drops e.g. Diablo 2 or re-visit areas you were too weak to do earlier e.g. Gothic I/II
• Unlike FF14 a RPG is a one-time purchase, can be modded if it's popular enough and has a replay-value. The main replay-value of FF14 is watching the MSQ again in your room or replay selected instances you like due to atmosphere/soundtrack/boss mechanics

[linay]

If the scope of FF14 is indeed on the single-player aspect it's scary how much resources are wasted into developing instanced party content, which gets deprecated and never visited again once a new expansion/new instances/new tomestone are here

People are still running them regardless. Whether it be via roulettes, party finder, or just a callout for help in people's respective communities (FC, FL, LS, NN, random shout, etc.).

[Millybonk]

People are still running them regardless. Whether it be via roulettes, party finder, or just a callout for help in people's respective communities (FC, FL, LS, NN, random shout, etc.).

The "doing them regardless" looks like really strong argument, but a closer look reveals that:

• A. People run them as a consequence of doing roulettes at lvl 80 to get a certain kind of tomestone, which means if you don't need those tomestone you won't be running those roulettes on your lvl 80 character
• B. Every non-ShB instanced content is mainly done to see it once/help someone/glamor/mount drops etc., as they reward nothing a lvl 80 can use in terms of equipment or crafting mats

Right now my lvl 80 WHM has nothing to do as I did the MSQ, capped Phantasmagoria for this week and I currently don't care for Ex/savage.

If I wouldn't be doing daily ARR Beast Tribes I would've been unsubbing by now, as there is no content left at the endgame for me until the next patch.

[linay]

The "doing them regardless" looks like really strong argument, but a closer look reveals that:

• A. People run them as a consequence of doing roulettes at lvl 80 to get a certain kind of tomestone, which means if you don't need those tomestone you won't be running those roulettes on your lvl 80 character
• B. Every non-ShB instanced content is mainly done to see it once/help someone/glamor/mount drops etc., as they reward nothing a lvl 80 can use in terms of equipment or crafting mats

Right now my lvl 80 WHM has nothing to do as I did the MSQ, capped Phantasmagoria for this week and I currently don't care for Ex/savage.

If I wouldn't be doing daily ARR Beast Tribes I would've been unsubbing by now, as there is no content left at the endgame for me until the next patch.

Whether or not there is anything to do is for every player to decide (the same thing with whether or not to unsubscribe). There is nothing to argue in that regard as I'm not going to dictate what another player should do.

The point here is that the multiple instances there are in the game don't go to waste. Every time you do a leveling roulette, for example, either to level another job on the same character or to gain more tomestone or to help someone else, you can potentially still get to run Sastasha, the very first dungeon in this game. That might not even be an option in another MMO except maybe helping someone else run an instance.

Leveling a new job and you can get Sastasha. Finished with your daily roulette and you can get Sastasha the next day. Finished with your weekly cap and you can get Sastasha the next week. Finished with tomestone gear and you can get Sastasha the next raid tier with new tomestone. Finished with the expansion and you can get Sastasha the next expansion.

Of course, you can also choose not to run leveling roulette because you don't think it's worth it, but plenty of people do, so all the duties in that roulette will potentially be used at any given day.

[Millybonk]

Whether or not there is anything to do is for every player to decide (the same thing with whether or not to unsubscribe). There is nothing to argue in that regard as I'm not going to dictate what another player should do.

The point here is that the multiple instances there are in the game don't go to waste. Every time you do a leveling roulette, for example, either to level another job on the same character or to gain more tomestone or to help someone else, you can potentially still get to run Sastasha, the very first dungeon in this game. That might not even be an option in another MMO except maybe helping someone else run an instance.

Leveling a new job and you can get Sastasha. Finished with your daily roulette and you can get Sastasha the next day. Finished with your weekly cap and you can get Sastasha the next week. Finished with tomestone gear and you can get Sastasha the next raid tier with new tomestone. Finished with the expansion and you can get Sastasha the next expansion.

Of course, you can also choose not to run leveling roulette because you don't think it's worth it, but plenty of people do, so all the duties in that roulette will potentially be used at any given day.

What should I call this mode of argumentation you're using here?

I gave you specifics about

• How limited lvl 80 content is: 3 lvl 80 dungeons, 3 trials up to lvl 80, 1 raid, Ex/savage
• How every non-ShB instance is only relevant due to the tomestones slapped on top of roulettes - and if you don't need those tomestone or a capped for the week all those roulettes + its pool of instanced content becomes instantly obsolete

and you're like "Every player has to decide if there's anything to do" while tunnel-visioning on leveling roulette.

Are you afraid of facts?

[linay]

Sorry, I did not see this earlier.

What should I call this mode of argumentation you're using here?

Maybe read it again:

There is nothing to argue in that regard

The point is if you feel you have no more use for those contents, then I won't argue with you on that.

I gave you specifics about

• How limited lvl 80 content is: 3 lvl 80 dungeons, 3 trials up to lvl 80, 1 raid, Ex/savage
• How every non-ShB instance is only relevant due to the tomestones slapped on top of roulettes - and if you don't need those tomestone or a capped for the week all those roulettes + its pool of instanced content becomes instantly obsolete

and you're like "Every player has to decide if there's anything to do" while tunnel-visioning on leveling roulette.

Are you afraid of facts?

Those facts are irrelevant to what my actual argument was. Leveling roulette was just an example. The tunnel visioning happens when you think content is wasted because it's obsolete for you. As long as it can be used by someone, it's not wasted. It's certainly not wasted on me. Being relevant only due to tomestone still makes it relevant.

[Avraym]

What should I call this mode of argumentation you're using here?

I gave you specifics about

• How limited lvl 80 content is: 3 lvl 80 dungeons, 3 trials up to lvl 80, 1 raid, Ex/savage
• How every non-ShB instance is only relevant due to the tomestones slapped on top of roulettes - and if you don't need those tomestone or a capped for the week all those roulettes + its pool of instanced content becomes instantly obsolete

and you're like "Every player has to decide if there's anything to do" while tunnel-visioning on leveling roulette.

Are you afraid of facts?

You layed it out quite simply. Unfortunately there's no speaking reason to someone who still considers doing Satasha at max level "End Game" content, simply because they are doing it through leveling roulette.

[linay]

So, this has nothing to do with my response to Millybonk, but just to address it:

You layed it out quite simply. Unfortunately there's no speaking reason to someone who still considers doing Satasha at max level "End Game" content, simply because they are doing it through leveling roulette.

Strange, considering it fits even the narrower definition of endgame presented in this thread: done on a level cap job. It even works toward your endgame/level cap progression in terms of gear.

So just to clarify: A character in FFXIV can run a level 15 dungeon on a max level job and be rewarded for progression toward a max level gear that will be among the best in the entire raid tier.

That's just how the game of FFXIV works. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but if you can't even acknowledge it, then it's clear you don't understand this game (and by extension, how endgame works in this game).