Lack of End Game Content

[Millybonk]

People are still running them regardless. Whether it be via roulettes, party finder, or just a callout for help in people's respective communities (FC, FL, LS, NN, random shout, etc.).

The "doing them regardless" looks like really strong argument, but a closer look reveals that:

• A. People run them as a consequence of doing roulettes at lvl 80 to get a certain kind of tomestone, which means if you don't need those tomestone you won't be running those roulettes on your lvl 80 character
• B. Every non-ShB instanced content is mainly done to see it once/help someone/glamor/mount drops etc., as they reward nothing a lvl 80 can use in terms of equipment or crafting mats

Right now my lvl 80 WHM has nothing to do as I did the MSQ, capped Phantasmagoria for this week and I currently don't care for Ex/savage.

If I wouldn't be doing daily ARR Beast Tribes I would've been unsubbing by now, as there is no content left at the endgame for me until the next patch.

[linay]

The "doing them regardless" looks like really strong argument, but a closer look reveals that:

• A. People run them as a consequence of doing roulettes at lvl 80 to get a certain kind of tomestone, which means if you don't need those tomestone you won't be running those roulettes on your lvl 80 character
• B. Every non-ShB instanced content is mainly done to see it once/help someone/glamor/mount drops etc., as they reward nothing a lvl 80 can use in terms of equipment or crafting mats

Right now my lvl 80 WHM has nothing to do as I did the MSQ, capped Phantasmagoria for this week and I currently don't care for Ex/savage.

If I wouldn't be doing daily ARR Beast Tribes I would've been unsubbing by now, as there is no content left at the endgame for me until the next patch.

Whether or not there is anything to do is for every player to decide (the same thing with whether or not to unsubscribe). There is nothing to argue in that regard as I'm not going to dictate what another player should do.

The point here is that the multiple instances there are in the game don't go to waste. Every time you do a leveling roulette, for example, either to level another job on the same character or to gain more tomestone or to help someone else, you can potentially still get to run Sastasha, the very first dungeon in this game. That might not even be an option in another MMO except maybe helping someone else run an instance.

Leveling a new job and you can get Sastasha. Finished with your daily roulette and you can get Sastasha the next day. Finished with your weekly cap and you can get Sastasha the next week. Finished with tomestone gear and you can get Sastasha the next raid tier with new tomestone. Finished with the expansion and you can get Sastasha the next expansion.

Of course, you can also choose not to run leveling roulette because you don't think it's worth it, but plenty of people do, so all the duties in that roulette will potentially be used at any given day.

[Millybonk]

Whether or not there is anything to do is for every player to decide (the same thing with whether or not to unsubscribe). There is nothing to argue in that regard as I'm not going to dictate what another player should do.

The point here is that the multiple instances there are in the game don't go to waste. Every time you do a leveling roulette, for example, either to level another job on the same character or to gain more tomestone or to help someone else, you can potentially still get to run Sastasha, the very first dungeon in this game. That might not even be an option in another MMO except maybe helping someone else run an instance.

Leveling a new job and you can get Sastasha. Finished with your daily roulette and you can get Sastasha the next day. Finished with your weekly cap and you can get Sastasha the next week. Finished with tomestone gear and you can get Sastasha the next raid tier with new tomestone. Finished with the expansion and you can get Sastasha the next expansion.

Of course, you can also choose not to run leveling roulette because you don't think it's worth it, but plenty of people do, so all the duties in that roulette will potentially be used at any given day.

What should I call this mode of argumentation you're using here?

I gave you specifics about

• How limited lvl 80 content is: 3 lvl 80 dungeons, 3 trials up to lvl 80, 1 raid, Ex/savage
• How every non-ShB instance is only relevant due to the tomestones slapped on top of roulettes - and if you don't need those tomestone or a capped for the week all those roulettes + its pool of instanced content becomes instantly obsolete

and you're like "Every player has to decide if there's anything to do" while tunnel-visioning on leveling roulette.

Are you afraid of facts?

[linay]

Sorry, I did not see this earlier.

What should I call this mode of argumentation you're using here?

Maybe read it again:

There is nothing to argue in that regard

The point is if you feel you have no more use for those contents, then I won't argue with you on that.

I gave you specifics about

• How limited lvl 80 content is: 3 lvl 80 dungeons, 3 trials up to lvl 80, 1 raid, Ex/savage
• How every non-ShB instance is only relevant due to the tomestones slapped on top of roulettes - and if you don't need those tomestone or a capped for the week all those roulettes + its pool of instanced content becomes instantly obsolete

and you're like "Every player has to decide if there's anything to do" while tunnel-visioning on leveling roulette.

Are you afraid of facts?

Those facts are irrelevant to what my actual argument was. Leveling roulette was just an example. The tunnel visioning happens when you think content is wasted because it's obsolete for you. As long as it can be used by someone, it's not wasted. It's certainly not wasted on me. Being relevant only due to tomestone still makes it relevant.

[Avraym]

What should I call this mode of argumentation you're using here?

I gave you specifics about

• How limited lvl 80 content is: 3 lvl 80 dungeons, 3 trials up to lvl 80, 1 raid, Ex/savage
• How every non-ShB instance is only relevant due to the tomestones slapped on top of roulettes - and if you don't need those tomestone or a capped for the week all those roulettes + its pool of instanced content becomes instantly obsolete

and you're like "Every player has to decide if there's anything to do" while tunnel-visioning on leveling roulette.

Are you afraid of facts?

You layed it out quite simply. Unfortunately there's no speaking reason to someone who still considers doing Satasha at max level "End Game" content, simply because they are doing it through leveling roulette.

[linay]

So, this has nothing to do with my response to Millybonk, but just to address it:

You layed it out quite simply. Unfortunately there's no speaking reason to someone who still considers doing Satasha at max level "End Game" content, simply because they are doing it through leveling roulette.

Strange, considering it fits even the narrower definition of endgame presented in this thread: done on a level cap job. It even works toward your endgame/level cap progression in terms of gear.

So just to clarify: A character in FFXIV can run a level 15 dungeon on a max level job and be rewarded for progression toward a max level gear that will be among the best in the entire raid tier.

That's just how the game of FFXIV works. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but if you can't even acknowledge it, then it's clear you don't understand this game (and by extension, how endgame works in this game).

[Kaylessa]

Strange, considering it fits even the narrower definition of endgame presented in this thread: done on a level cap job.

Nope. Endgame content has never been, and never will be, content you choose to do at level cap. It is content that requires you to be at level cap. It is content that is restricted to max level. You're changing the definition once again to fit an agenda. New rewards for leveling content doesn't make that content endgame content.

EDIT: Farming for BIS gear can be an endgame activity, but the content run to farm for that gear may not be endgame content. Running Sastasha? Definitely not endgame content no matter what you're farming. Are you seriously suggesting running a level 20 dungeon is endgame content?

[Avraym]

Nope. Endgame content has never been, and never will be, content you choose to do at level cap. It is content that requires you to be at level cap. It is content that is restricted to max level. You're changing the definition once again to fit an agenda. New rewards for leveling content doesn't make that content endgame content.

EDIT: Farming for BIS gear can be an endgame activity, but the content run to farm for that gear may not be endgame content. Running Sastasha? Definitely not endgame content no matter what you're farming. Are you seriously suggesting running a level 20 dungeon is endgame content?

He is. Is it still considered end game content if you don't need the tomes I wonder???

[linay]

Nope. Endgame content has never been, and never will be, content you choose to do at level cap. It is content that requires you to be at level cap. It is content that is restricted to max level. You're changing the definition once again to fit an agenda. New rewards for leveling content doesn't make that content endgame content.

EDIT: Farming for BIS gear can be an endgame activity, but the content run to farm for that gear may not be endgame content. Running Sastasha? Definitely not endgame content no matter what you're farming. Are you seriously suggesting running a level 20 dungeon is endgame content?

Endgame content is activity you do for endgame. So it's endgame activity, but it's not endgame content? And I didn't say Sastasha itself was endgame content, but indirectly it becomes endgame content due to how FFXIV does its endgame activity.

This is why your definition for endgame from other MMORPG doesn't work when applied to FFXIV as is without recognizing how the game works.