Lack of End Game Content

[linay]

The 'duty' modifying roulette refers to what is randomly being chosen. The roulette is used to randomly choose. It does not include the duties inside.

EDIT: Wrong word

They're not rewarding you for just choosing random things. They're rewarding you for being chosen to do random duty and then for doing that duty.

[Kaylessa]

They're not rewarding you for just choosing random things. They're rewarding you for being chosen to do random duty and then for doing that duty.

The activity they reward you for is doing the random dungeon selected, yes. We're getting off track.

The dungeons are content, the duty roulette is content. The duty roulette is content included to choose random dungeons. These are very real items or things that make up the game, stuff that is coded into the game. Everybody can experience this, it's part of the package.

Participating in a dungeon is not something coded into the game. It is not a part of the game available to everyone because your actions are your own, your actions are not included in the game, they don't come packaged in the game, it is not a part of the game's content.

An activity (by the very definition of the word), is the doing of a thing. Participating in a dungeon is a doing of a thing - you completed content. Participating in the duty roulette is the doing of a thing - you selected a random dungeon. All activities, all things you do.

Participating in the duty roulette to get end game rewards is something done only at max level and is an endgame activity, the dungeon chosen isn't important it's just to complete a dungeon. Run it and you will get your reward. The dungeon chosen, if Sastasha, is content not unlocked at max level and therefore not endgame content even though you're engaging in an endgame activity. You have run leveling content chosen by the duty roulette to get an endgame reward.

Simples.

[BlitzAceRush]

Several pages of levelling roulette .

Which still makes Sastasha an endgame activity in that moment as now it's been selected you need to run it and finish it to get a tomestone you can only get by being max level content.
You've gone back and forth with linay for like two pages over a technicality, you can spin it anyway but "Content that you have to be max level to do to get gear or items to progress your max level character" Under that, doing the levelling roulette counts as being as a max level character is the only way to trigger it to give you the right tomestone and to do the levelling roulette, you must complete the dungeon it selects for you, making the whole activity from selecting to doing the roulette, to being assigned a dungeon, to completing it is the endgame activity.

Another example of this is the ARR and HW relic, they both had you running out of date content for some of its steps but the relic, the activity you were doing it for is endgame content at it's time so once put into the relic steps that old content became endgame content until the relic itself was no longer relevant

linay isn't arguing that just running Sastasha in of itself is endgame content, but that any dungeon you get during the levelling roulette is endgame content during that roulette and shes right, plenty of games ask you to run non max level or out of date content as part of endgame for quests or other forms of progression.

If you have to complete it, to finish the endgame activity then it's part of the endgame for as long as the activity its a part of is considered endgame.

Also I'd like to point out that under this narrow view we're all still using, the currently Ultimate's, the most challenging content currently in the game still doesn't count as endgame, which I find laughable given the "I want challenging endgame!" Well, there it sits.

[Kaylessa]

You've gone back and forth with linay for like two pages over a technicality,

I've gone back and forth with Linay for two pages because Linay is fond of changing definitions to suit their agenda.

The leveling roulette is content separate from dungeons. You are rewarded for doing what the roulette said, that's the endgame activity in question. Complete what the roulette tells you and get your reward. What the roulette tells you to do is immaterial, nowhere does it say that this content has to be endgame content, nowhere does it say that running Sastasha because of a roulette suddenly makes running Sastasha an endgame activity. That is something you invented to forward an agenda.

Another example of this is the ARR and HW relic, they both had you running out of date content for some of its steps but the relic,

If the content was out of date content, by definition it cannot be endgame content. End of story.

linay isn't arguing that just running Sastasha in of itself is endgame content, but that any dungeon you get during the levelling roulette is endgame content during that roulette and shes right, plenty of games ask you to run non max level or out of date content as part of endgame for quests or other forms of progression.

Another mistake is present here. The duty roulette finished the moment it chose a dungeon for you, running the dungeon isn't participating in the roulette. The roulette spun, it chose a dungeon for you, that is the roulette finished. That's what you do when you run the duty roulette. You don't run a dungeon as part of a roulette, the roulette is done.

So the idea that the dungeon is endgame content during the roulette is a silly idea. The roulette finished before you entered the dungeon.

Also she's wrong.

Also I'd like to point out that under this narrow view we're all still using, the currently Ultimate's, the most challenging content currently in the game still doesn't count as endgame, which I find laughable given the "I want challenging endgame!" Well, there it sits.

This narrow view is the only acceptable view inside the MMO genre. So … get used to hearing it I suppose *shrugs*

[Zabuza]

Amazing. 118 pages in and people are still trying to say Satasha is endgame. It doesn't matter at this point whether the OP specified what he wanted to your liking in the original post. Point is, he and others have long since done so now. So why are people pretending they still don't know what he is asking for and playing ignorant just to deny the simple truth in front of them? People shouldn't be able to clear 1-3 in a week with pugs. An entire raid tier should not be cleared in 35 hours. The world firsts cleared it in 18, I believe it was. Why do you guys so vehemently deny this, STILL? I'm honestly not sure who these posters are trying to fool at this point with their little act.

[BlitzAceRush]

Another mistake is present here. The duty roulette finished the moment it chose a dungeon for you, running the dungeon isn't participating in the roulette. The roulette spun, it chose a dungeon for you, that is the roulette finished. That's what you do when you run the duty roulette. You don't run a dungeon as part of a roulette, the roulette is done.

So the idea that the dungeon is endgame content during the roulette is a silly idea. The roulette finished before you entered the dungeon.

Also she's wrong.

Except if you were to leave or fail the dungeon it gave you, you wound't get the reward and the roulette would count as incomplete, you're saying simply choosing the dungeon is the end of the endgame activity but to get the endgame reward, you have to do the dungeon thus the roulette isn't finished until you clear the dungeon it presents you with.
Unless you're telling me I've been doing it wrong all these years and true masters of endgame leave the dungeon as soon as it selects one for them?

[Ovenmitts]

So the idea that the dungeon is endgame content during the roulette is a silly idea. The roulette finished before you entered the dungeon.

Also she's wrong.

Except if you were to leave or fail the dungeon it gave you, you wound't get the reward and the roulette would count as incomplete, you're saying simply choosing the dungeon is the end of the endgame activity but to get the endgame reward, you have to do the dungeon thus the roulette isn't finished until you clear the dungeon it presents you with.
Unless you're telling me I've been doing it wrong all these years and true masters of endgame leave the dungeon as soon as it selects one for them?

Emphasis my own.

I'm jumping in here because this is getting stupid. You know as any one of us that nobody does a roulette and gets excited about old dungeons. When a friend asks, what amazing content can I participate in at max level can keep me hooked? Are you saying you will tell them YOU CAN DO ROULETTES AND PLAY A LEVEL 15 DUNGEON ALL THE WAY THROUGH WITHOUT QUITTING.

Stop. Just stop. That's the worst argument I have ever heard. You do not sign up for a tome roulette for the dungeon. You sign up for the tome. Period. Dungeon may be fun but it is not end game content which is what the debate is all about. Come on now.

At level 80, a reasonable suggestion you can offer would be:

• Run maps to get in the new Aquapolis.
• Run Ultimate
• Clear/Farm EX primals.
• Run Savage raids for progression and loot.

Tomes are a means to an end. They are not the content themselves. You are getting those for the gear, in order to do the content.

[Kaylessa]

Except if you were to leave or fail the dungeon it gave you, you wound't get the reward and the roulette would count as incomplete, you're saying simply choosing the dungeon is the end of the endgame activity but to get the endgame reward, you have to do the dungeon thus the roulette isn't finished until you clear the dungeon it presents you with.
Unless you're telling me I've been doing it wrong all these years and true masters of endgame leave the dungeon as soon as it selects one for them?

Let's put it this way, if you draw a task out of a hat and you fail that task you wouldn't say the act of drawing is incomplete right? You would have just failed the task set out by the drawing. The roulette is the same thing, it sets out a task for you (random dungeon), it names a reward, that's it the roulette is complete. If you fail, then you would have failed the task set out by the roulette, you wouldn't say the roulette was not completed.

Farming endgame tomes is the endgame activity, one of the ways you do this is using the duty roulette because of the rewards it provides. The endgame activity is performing the task the roulette gives you, the roulette selects the random dungeon and tasks you with completing it. The task may contain old content, this content by itself doesn't have to be endgame content, but the completing of the task to farm tomes can be an endgame activity. Content isn't endgame unless it's unlocked at max level, Sastasha obviously isn't, so by definition it's not endgame content.

Your final point is stupid. You are given a task, the task is an endgame activity, the content you need to navigate doesn't have to be.

[Forever_Learning]

The mix of objectivity and subjectivity is the main problem in this thread.

I accept the definition of end-game content.
I agree there is little end-game content in FF14.

There's many people trying to change the definition, or deny the lack of end-game content, I will disagree with them.

However, I disagree with the notion that lack of end-game is a problem.

Other content gets called casual, non end-game, filler, side, fluff, but I prefer ALL of it to the end-game content. I hear statements about what an MMO is, how it should be, but there's no law stating an MMO can make the majority of its content be something available prior to reaching the current max level.

Is Palace of the dead, Heaven on High, or Blue mage pieces of end-game content?

No.

Does it matter? No! Do people want them removed? Absolutely not!

The developers appear to prefer adding content everyone can do rather than strictly end-game or very challenging.

People look at me and think I'm a newb - I'm at over 100 days playtime and I haven't reached level 80. That's because I spend my time slowly doing the things on the way to max level, and as a result, it's taking forever to reach it. I do beast dailies, chocobo companion, lots of alt levelling, hildegard, and I'm about to finish the blue mage carnival.

Now, I am excited for moonfire fair.

Is any of that end-game? No. Do I care? No.

It's fine to request more raid content, but there's people like myself who honestly prefer the lack of focus on end-game here. I played back in ARR, where we mostly just had end game, and ultimately I just left. Now, I've been back for eight months, playing massively, with lots of alts, and various side things.I love that I never feel the need to rush to end-game, and furthermore, I chose to return to this game for that reason. Have all range and healers at level 60 now, will next get them all to level 70, and then level 80, while doing various fun things along the way.

It's interesting that people say getting other jobs to max isn't end-game, it's not, but it is clearly a key selling point and something that many people enjoy doing. Some have perhaps even chosen this MMO for that very reason.

Ultimately, I firmly believe FF14 is trying to be a different kind of MMO. I hear arguments saying MMOs do this, should do this, and as a gay man, it just reminds me when they said marriage is hetersexual only. FF14 is an MMO that has actively chosen to make the content be on everything outside of end-game, or better put, things you can do that don't require a max level job.

When I compared WoW, ESO, and FF14, I chose to subscribe to this game again because I saw the focus would be on content other than raiding. I believe there are many like myself, who choose this game for similar reasons, or remained for that reason, and the backlash against this thread is because they basically want the game to maintain the focus on content for all.

[Kaylessa]

When I compared WoW, ESO, and FF14, I chose to subscribe to this game because I saw the focus would be on content other than raiding. I believe there are many like myself, who choose this game for similar reasons, or remained for that reason, and the backlash against this thread is because they basically want the game to maintain the focus on end-game.

I subscribe to all 3 hehehe

I feel the same as you in a lot of ways FF14 is definitely nice and relaxing, I feel ESO is sort of the same very slowly paced. With WoW it's more of a pick up, rush to do achievements, put down sort of game. In FF14 I might stop in Limsa and listen to the person playing music for half an hour :P

Thank you for that reply in a thread that has mostly been off topic