SCH needs some nerfs

[MoroMurasaki]

Do you know how statistics work? 99% does not mean optimized dps. If I take every grey percentile player and isolate them there will be 99%s within that group; does this mean they're optimized? No. WHMs are missing the subset of players that parse run and speed run in their logs within fflogs because people don't speed-run on whm, and they don't parse-run on whm, because people that do these runs don't take dead weight classes with them. This means whm numbers get pushed down because the upper percentiles of whms are not in the proper setting to parse well. Your inept in proper play spills over to your inept of understanding basic concepts.

Were I comfortable linking logs I would happily do so to show you how wrong you are and how baseless your assumptions are. Since I can't (and neither can you without being reported into the ground) this isn't an argument that can even happen here.

The best I can do is tell you to actually look before assuming. There are plenty of parse runs for WHM's in this game. They don't hit the numbers a SCH or AST can because WHM doesn't have an answer to Indom or ES so in order to contribute any healing at all it's losing GCDs where as the other two healers arent.

It's like people are incapable of logic when their main is being spoken about.

[Ghishlain]

I'm sorry to say this, but WHM is in a much worse spot than the jobs you mentioned. Replacing a pld with a drk or meta dps with a non-meta dps results in 100-200 rdps difference right now. Replacing a WHM with an AST can result in a 1k rdps difference.

(if you were being sarcastic, I didn't get it)

I was being sarcastic and satirical. The number of WHMs who have logs recorded on FFLogs is a fair margin higher (usually at least 10K+ recorded) than those aforementioned job but WHM's position in the healer role is in a much more precarious than most of those jobs except for potentially MCH (correct me if I'm wrong though, I just hear a lot of bad things about MCH down the grapevine but I've never actually looked in great detail personally)

[Lastelli]

I was being sarcastic and satirical. The number of WHMs who have logs recorded on FFLogs is a fair margin higher (usually at least 10K+ recorded) than those aforementioned job but WHM's position in the healer role is in a much more precarious than most of those jobs except for potentially MCH (correct me if I'm wrong though, I just hear a lot of bad things about MCH down the grapevine but I've never actually looked in great detail personally)

MCH dps is very solid, especially with a DRG and a NIN in the party. MCH issues have more to do with its gameplay design and the fact that it's competing for the physical ranged spot with BRD, and BRD is simply a better choice for several reasons. So in the current situation, either MCH is meta alongside BRD, or it's an inferior choice than BRD, with a much more punishing gameplay, more reliant on party composition and more frustrating to play due to how disruptive high latency is to the job. But if we're talking about efficiency, a WHM is much more detrimental to a party than a MCH.

[CreinCrein]

Were I comfortable linking logs I would happily do so to show you how wrong you are and how baseless your assumptions are. Since I can't (and neither can you without being reported into the ground) this isn't an argument that can even happen here.

The best I can do is tell you to actually look before assuming. There are plenty of parse runs for WHM's in this game. They don't hit the numbers a SCH or AST can because WHM doesn't have an answer to Indom or ES so in order to contribute any healing at all it's losing GCDs where as the other two healers arent.

It's like people are incapable of logic when their main is being spoken about.

Aight I'll bite, explain to me why would anyone take a job that takes away raid dps in a parse run or speed run. Then explain to me how this number could ever be the equivalent to a meta comp in terms of pushing parses. Literally just spent 10 seconds on fflogs and found everything to the contrary. Having dead job mechanics and useless traits tends to make a class undesirable. Having it designed against the meta is pretty bad too. As for my main? My main is what's meta because I care about the people I'm running with and their performance. I'm also a halfway decent healer that can see that whm is a flaming pile of shiz that needs a few buffs, contrary to someone who doesn't know how to read statistics and less so knows how to play healer at an optimal level; insteads parrots things they pretend they think they know about a subject they pretend they think they know. You've also outright dismissed many good arguments in the thread by saying "salty schs stay salty", which speaks to whatever biases you have.

[MoroMurasaki]

Aight I'll bite, explain to me why would anyone take a job that takes away raid dps in a parse run or speed run. Then explain to me how this number could ever be the equivalent to a meta comp in terms of pushing parses. Literally just spent 10 seconds on fflogs and found everything to the contrary. Having dead job mechanics and useless traits tends to make a class undesirable. Having it designed against the meta is pretty bad too. As for my main? My main is what's meta because I care about the people I'm running with and their performance. I'm also a halfway decent healer that can see that whm is a flaming pile of shiz that needs a few buffs, contrary to someone who doesn't know how to read statistics and less so knows how to play healer at an optimal level; insteads parrots things they pretend they think they know about a subject they pretend they think they know. You've also outright dismissed many good arguments in the thread by saying "salty schs stay salty", which speaks to whatever biases you have.

I have no bias against SCH in general just the ones who can't see that their class is overtaking the other healers by a ridiculous amount.

If you can't find the parse runs for WHM on fflogs maybe you should take a class or something I dunno, it isn't hard to do. I'm sorry you're having so much trouble though. It seems like an easy enough thing to me :shrug:

Stay in the meta. That's cool. You can also keep proving me right with this extreme defensiveness. As I said neither of us can link logs so this isn't something that can be settled here. If you care so much about making your point my discord is in my signature, if not stop making claims you can't provide evidence for.

[CreinCrein]

I have no bias against SCH in general just the ones who can't see that their class is overtaking the other healers by a ridiculous amount.

If you can't find the parse runs for WHM on fflogs maybe you should take a class or something I dunno, it isn't hard to do. I'm sorry you're having so much trouble though. It seems like an easy enough thing to me :shrug:

Stay in the meta. That's cool. You can also keep proving me right with this extreme defensiveness. As I said neither of us can link logs so this isn't something that can be settled here. If you care so much about making your point my discord is in my signature, if not stop making claims you can't provide evidence for.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/vwaDr...pe=damage-done vs https://www.fflogs.com/reports/hBW87...pe=damage-done

Top sch vs whm parse. Skipped the entire final add phase, had a smn for contagion, lower kill time = higher dps, skipped an entire movement and healing phase. Hardly optimal setting for the whm. I can do through the entire top ten to top 50s in the list and see the same trends.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/CVjdk...pe=damage-done vs https://www.fflogs.com/reports/Wfjam...pe=damage-done

4 vs 4, skipped the entirety of the final add phase. Contagion vs no contagion yet again.

Feel free to report me btw

[Dualgunner]

Aight I'll bite, explain to me why would anyone take a job that takes away raid dps in a parse run or speed run.

I think the main issue is you're conflating a parse run and a speed run. You use both terms, but you seem to use them synonymously. A parse run is meant to feed a single individual's damage to get their damage up as high as it can go, oftentimes beyond what that job's actual limits are because of just how hard they've been fed. With this in mind, you can take any job in for a parse run, within the constraint that the party has to synergize well enough to be able to feed (so, more often than not parse running a non-meta job will mean you're going 7/8 speedkill meta). Even when doing parse runs with the full speedkill meta, you're going to prioritize one member over others more often than not because feeding is important for parse runs.

So let's answer this question: why would you take a non-meta job into a parse run? Admittedly, the biggest reason I can think of, and what my static's White Mage did, was find a group outside of our static that already got their clears for the week as well, and take turns doing parse runs where they optimized the strategy and synergy around making sure he got the highest parse he could.

All this to say...this weird narrative that White Mages cannot optimize is definitely weird. You might as well say that SAM and BLM were fine, their damage was high enough it's just you couldn't optimize with them like you could other DPS and all the good DPS went meta anyway so the results are skewed.

inb4 "I know that I'm orange in every fight and you don't even play healer"

You asked "Why would anyone take a job that takes away raid dps in a parse run or speed run?" To answer that, I needed to define my terms clearly. Speedkills will naturally get high number outputs because the boss is dying at ludicrous speed; therefore, you would of course go full speedkill meta to try and achieve speedkills because the meta offers the greatest raid DPS, and thus, the fastest kill. Parse runs are about feeding, not speed, although speed can and does matter, it's not the priority.

I guess it could be crystallized as speedkills care about total rDPS, while parse runs care only about the player's individual pDPS.