SCH needs some nerfs

[Dualgunner]

I also see you're not even a WHM or healer main so I don't know why you're here when it's very obvious you don't know what you're talking about.

Check past page one of FFLogs. Not everyone's done everything in Alphascape. (Check Sigmascape Savage)

[MoroMurasaki]

Typical below average player trying to give their opinion on what's OP and what's not. The fact that you're mainly complaining about SCH and not AST is big yikes my dude. All your arguments are so bad. SCH and AST are very fleshed out classes compared to WHM, that is why they are so good. You could remove Chain Strat but that would just make AST the most broken being 500+ rDPS ahead of the other healers at all times. The reason you're even in this thread is becasue WHM is so bad but that's because SE did a poor job designing them at SB. 3/4 of their new skills were horrible at launch but because they fixed Benison so now it's just Lily's and Planery that are bad. DB is meh with a SCH because a SCHs fairy can handle most single target damage so it's just there. Not to mention compared with Tetra and Bene it's just kinda overkill. Thin Air is the best skill they got but it's pretty useless in most fights as you won't reach the point where you'll really need it.

So literally 3/4 or (4/4 skills with a SCH) are pretty bad. Compare that to SCH and AST kits for Stormblood, which are all very well designed and meshed with their old kits well, then you're probably pretty salty as the four skills AST and SCHs got during Stormblood are very useful.

Stop complaining that SCHs and ASTs are OP or broken because they aren't. They're only OP or broken when you compare it to WHM which is in the gutter right now and that's SE fault. Start complaining to them to actually fix your bad job. Tell them to increase your pDPS, tell them to make Planery last 30 or more seconds, tell them to fix lilys so they proc off regens/benison and not single target heals that you DON'T USE or just scrap lily's and make a new mechanic, tell them to fix Asylum because it's archaic design makes it a very very worse Collective Unconcious. Having to stand in one spot for a regen is such a bad design. Tell them to increase the healing done with Assize. But don't go whining other jobs are broken because your job is broken fundamentally.

I also see you're not even a WHM or healer main so I don't know why you're here when it's very obvious you don't know what you're talking about.

Thank you for giving me a laugh this morning, the SCH salt at being called out is strong.

If you think AST is the bigger threat to WHM you have a lot to learn and I wish you the best in that fictional world you're living in.

Perhaps address the actual SCH criticism instead of pointing the finger at AST which is perhaps the only healer balanced properly for Alphascape? Maybe spend a little less time determining the validity of my arguments via my logs (while being the actual meme elitist, suuuuuper glad we are giving people that complain about that more ammo btw -_-; ) and more actually thinking about what's being said.

I agree WHM is weak this tier. WHM being weak isn't changing the fact that SCH is too strong though. Look at tank clear rates. WAR and PLD are quite high and close and then DRK is abysmally (lolpun) behind. If it were really a situation similar to that with SCH and AST being fine and WHM being weak as the main issue our clear rates would look like that. They dont, they're split more than 40% SCH with WHM and AST being much closer than AST and SCH.

Give me some more salt to read on my lunch by break, guys!

[technole]

Stop complaining that SCHs and ASTs are OP or broken because they aren't. They're only OP or broken when you compare it to WHM which is in the gutter right now and that's SE fault. Start complaining to them to actually fix your bad job. Tell them to increase your pDPS, tell them to make Planery last 30 or more seconds, tell them to fix lilys so they proc off regens/benison and not single target heals that you DON'T USE or just scrap lily's and make a new mechanic, tell them to fix Asylum because it's archaic design makes it a very very worse Collective Unconcious. Having to stand in one spot for a regen is such a bad design. Tell them to increase the healing done with Assize. But don't go whining other jobs are broken because your job is broken fundamentally.

I also see you're not even a WHM or healer main so I don't know why you're here when it's very obvious you don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah, Scholar and Astro are considered "OP" compared to White Mage. It's better to improve White Mage at this point because of it's controversial skill set that was given in Stormblood. No one will disagree that White Mage could use some rethinking of it's job skill gauge and lilies going forward. Asylum was good in HW because it gave the job a bubble regeneration when the other two jobs have one and it was obvious were trying to find ways to make the WHM/AST combo potent, it just took almost two raid tiers to figure that out to the point they threw everything they could to Noct Astro to make it more than just viable. Either cut down the Asylum cooldown and/or make it more powerful to want to define raiding strategy around, it's too weak in it's current form with all the movement required in Omega.

Being at the end of the expansion, and possibly another healer coming into the mix, one can only hope going forward they'll re-define The Balance (pun intended)

There's nothing new on official forums about people not even knowing what they're talking about but crying for absurd nerf/rebalance without understanding what they're blaming, especially about healers.

It's typical, many of us have been here for years, and there is usually an agenda. What makes the OF good is you have people who play the jobs casually, to end-game raiding, even all the way to optimization.

[Eloah]

If you searched someone's house without a warrant and found a dead body there would still need to be an investigation - just because you "aren't supposed to" have access to that doesn't change the fact that we do and it's a neon sign pointing at jobs like SCH and BRD

Two things, for now. Why is Bard suddenly in this discussion? This is a discussion on healer balance let's try and fail to keep it that way.

Also, I was giving you and anyone else a warning. These threads are monitored, a lot, and if you or anyone else give out information that isn't common knowledge, especially info that is very specific, that you shouldn't have access to, it's a giant red flag. It's basically like saying, "hey SE I parse". And we all know the rules about it. If you cited a source, or make your info more vague or generalized, you aren't painting a target on yourself. The fact that this thread is specifically mentioning raids and not the game as a whole, adds to that. SE could start suspending people, they could do nothing, but why risk it over a petty discussion.

Also if we are pointing fingers, can I call WHM OP for having the best burst heals in the game, the best burst DPS of the healer, and the best AoE of the healers... I'm not wrong, but why isn't this a discussion, hmm.

[KDSilver]

There's nothing new on official forums about people not even knowing what they're talking about but crying for absurd nerf/rebalance without understanding what they're blaming, especially about healers.

[Genaux]

I saw a post in another thread comparing the DPS differences between WHM and AST a while ago and that inspired me to do the same thing, but with all three healers. All the data was pulled from fflogs a few days ago during week 7 so it should still be fairly representative.

Here are the DPS thresholds for various percentiles for each of the encounters. I bolded the top DPS in each category.

---Chaos---
99th: AST: 4218 SCH: 4182 WHM: 3620
95th: AST: 3734 SCH: 3689 WHM: 3241
75th: AST: 2991 SCH: 3034 WHM: 2685
50th: AST: 2565 SCH: 2449 WHM: 2267
25th: AST: 1923 SCH: 2089 WHM: 1844

---Midgardsormr---
99th: AST: 3524 SCH: 3530 WHM: 3206
95th: AST: 3141 SCH: 3132 WHM: 2864
75th: AST: 2566 SCH: 2585 WHM: 2419
50th: AST: 2160 SCH: 2234 WHM: 2107
25th: AST: 1803 SCH: 1908 WHM: 1802

---Omega---
99th: AST: 3871 SCH: 3827 WHM: 3245
95th: AST: 3403 SCH: 3355 WHM: 2944
75th: AST: 2791 SCH: 2766 WHM: 2486
50th: AST: 2393 SCH: 2413 WHM: 2199
25th: AST: 2024 SCH: 2097 WHM: 1905

---Omega M/F---
99th: AST: 3586 SCH: 3589 WHM: 3380
95th: AST: 3164 SCH: 3208 WHM: 3028
75th: AST: 2617 SCH: 2718 WHM: 2559
50th: AST: 2245 SCH: 2398 WHM: 2247
25th: AST: 1924 SCH: 2107 WHM: 1958

---Final Omega---
99th: AST: 3776 SCH: 3815 WHM: 3577
95th: AST: 3363 SCH: 3387 WHM: 3113
75th: AST: 2732 SCH: 2772 WHM: 2534
50th: AST: 2225 SCH: 2425 WHM: 2241
25th: AST: 1963 SCH: 2116 WHM: 1984
---

AST and SCH appear to be pretty neck and neck in terms of DPS in a lot of these fights, with only a single digit of difference between them in some cases. In none of these fights in any of the selected percentile categories does WHM come out on top.

Unless you are solo-healing or doing something uncommon like doubling up on healing jobs, you will be paired with another healer of a different job. Because of this, its also interesting to look at the pick rates of all the healer compositions. I made a quick bar graph displaying the composition pick rates based on the number of unique pairs of healers who are ranked for each fight.

Number of unique pairs of healers with clears for each of the fights:
---Chaos---
SCH/AST: 7821 SCH/WHM: 10232 WHM/AST: 6081

---Midgardsormr---
SCH/AST: 5990 SCH/WHM: 10395 WHM/AST: 3421

---Omega---
SCH/AST: 4693 SCH/WHM: 6539 WHM/AST: 1639

---Omega M/F---
SCH/AST: 5799 SCH/WHM: 4440 WHM/AST: 461

---Final Omega---
SCH/AST: 2234 SCH/WHM: 1302 WHM/AST: 105

Pick rates in graphical form:


SCH/WHM Starts out popular in the lower floors and is gradually overtaken by SCH/AST by the later floors. For AST/WHM however, the pick rate gradually gets worse in later floors, bottoming out at a measly 2.9% pick rate among cleared healer pairs for Final Omega.

There are probably a lot of reasons why the pick rates are the way they are, and I don't feel I am really qualified to discuss them at length. I hope this data can be useful to somebody though.

[MoroMurasaki]

Also if we are pointing fingers, can I call WHM OP for having the best burst heals in the game, the best burst DPS of the healer, and the best AoE of the healers... I'm not wrong, but why isn't this a discussion, hmm.

Because AoE dps is more or less irrelevant to raiding, that burst dps is more than balanced out by the awful sustained dps that WHM offers for a myriad of reasons and using Cure III anything more frequently than the other healers use their major AoE heals like Indom or Earthly Star is asking to rip off of the tank.

Also, this.

---Chaos---
99th: AST: 4218 SCH: 4182 WHM: 3620
95th: AST: 3734 SCH: 3689 WHM: 3241
75th: AST: 2991 SCH: 3034 WHM: 2685
50th: AST: 2565 SCH: 2449 WHM: 2267
25th: AST: 1923 SCH: 2089 WHM: 1844

---Midgardsormr---
99th: AST: 3524 SCH: 3530 WHM: 3206
95th: AST: 3141 SCH: 3132 WHM: 2864
75th: AST: 2566 SCH: 2585 WHM: 2419
50th: AST: 2160 SCH: 2234 WHM: 2107
25th: AST: 1803 SCH: 1908 WHM: 1802

---Omega---
99th: AST: 3871 SCH: 3827 WHM: 3245
95th: AST: 3403 SCH: 3355 WHM: 2944
75th: AST: 2791 SCH: 2766 WHM: 2486
50th: AST: 2393 SCH: 2413 WHM: 2199
25th: AST: 2024 SCH: 2097 WHM: 1905

---Omega M/F---
99th: AST: 3586 SCH: 3589 WHM: 3380
95th: AST: 3164 SCH: 3208 WHM: 3028
75th: AST: 2617 SCH: 2718 WHM: 2559
50th: AST: 2245 SCH: 2398 WHM: 2247
25th: AST: 1924 SCH: 2107 WHM: 1958

---Final Omega---
99th: AST: 3776 SCH: 3815 WHM: 3577
95th: AST: 3363 SCH: 3387 WHM: 3113
75th: AST: 2732 SCH: 2772 WHM: 2534
50th: AST: 2225 SCH: 2425 WHM: 2241
25th: AST: 1963 SCH: 2116 WHM: 1984

You would think the job with the strongest potency base filler would come out on top at least once. It's almost like there is a problem. Also, startling! Another example of SCH completely dominating the competition.

[MoroMurasaki]

These statistics are wrong and you can't use them because no one is optimizing on whm, whms aren’t running in perfect comps, the number of “good” whms is greatly diminished because most went to go play astro. WHM still beats SCH on a dummy fight and in an optimized group they would as well.

In what world is WHM fighting for the SCH spot? It's also the AST and WHM fighting for the spot.

All the criticism you gave was bad so there's really no need to answer to it. It's very clear you have no idea what you're talking about and you jumping on that statistic bandwagon just proved that even more.

The only real thing that's broken about SCH is their fairy which needs an obvious nerf to some extent. A full time regen throughout the fight that hits for more than an Aspected Benefic/Regen is too strong especially when it costs 0 resources to do. This is why you also have a SCH in the party. If SCH didn't have Embrace you would be seeing more and more WHM/AST combos.

"The statistics don't support my feelycrafting so they are invalid, surely the 99% WHM's are optimizing less than the 99% SCH's because reasons."

Okay champ. Sure thing lol

[KDSilver]

surely the 99% WHM's are optimizing less than the 99% SCH's because reasons.

because reasons : because no one is optimizing on whm, whms aren’t running in perfect comps
perfect comp : ast/sch

Read what people tell you.
There are less optimised WHM because optimal comp isn't including WHM.