SCH needs some nerfs

[KDSilver]

In the end, that's not even really a proper thread to debate how to balance or nerf SCH.
That's just another WHM cry who doesn't even play the 3 healers at equal level and barely know what she talks about, leading in her main argument being "NERF" without strong analysis, asking for others thoughts on the subject but bring their opinion down.

That's a bit useless.

Best option is to just delete Noct and actually give AST it's own identity instead of trying to split it between regen/shield

Kinda wished for that for a long time, but I highly doubt they'll entirely rework AST, so at least, I'd prefer noct being really considered apart from diurnal.

[MoroMurasaki]

In the end, that's not even really a proper thread to debate how to balance or nerf SCH.
That's just another WHM cry who doesn't even play the 3 healers at equal level and barely know what she talks about, leading in her main argument being "NERF" without strong analysis, asking for others thoughts on the subject but bring their opinion down.

Oh yes, it's clearly a thread from a WHM. I bet it says my main class is WHM - oh, wait, nope that says RDM. But I bet if you look me up all my parses are for WHM because it's what I raid on and that's why I care about the healer imbalance- oh, wow... that's all RDM too, huh?

I care about this because SCH is overpowered and overrepresented in Alphascape specifically. The growing problem with healer balance all expansion is coming to a head in the final raid tier where there is no reason to take WHM and even less of a reason to bring a Noct AST.

I'm sure it's easier to dismiss criticism as someone who doesn't know what they're talking about but it doesn't take a SCH main to evaluate the function of SCH any more than it takes a BRD main to see that BRD is in a similar position.

Keep whining SCH mains, I'll keep trying to divert the WHM who complain about AST to the true impediment to healer balance and right now that's your class.

[FalalaMaru]

Oh yes, it's clearly a thread from a WHM. I bet it says my main class is WHM - oh, wait, nope that says RDM. But I bet if you look me up all my parses are for WHM because it's what I raid on and that's why I care about the healer imbalance- oh, wow... that's all RDM too, huh?

I care about this because SCH is overpowered and overrepresented in Alphascape specifically. The growing problem with healer balance all expansion is coming to a head in the final raid tier where there is no reason to take WHM and even less of a reason to bring a Noct AST.

I'm sure it's easier to dismiss criticism as someone who doesn't know what they're talking about but it doesn't take a SCH main to evaluate the function of SCH any more than it takes a BRD main to see that BRD is in a similar position.

Keep whining SCH mains, I'll keep trying to divert the WHM who complain about AST to the true impediment to healer balance and right now that's your class.

Sch "IS" OP, but not for the reasons you are presenting. Sch's having the highest represented number on FFlogs does not make it OP, it just means it is preferred healer. Even if they nerfed sch to the ground to the point it becomes literally unplayable and the only healer compositions you see are WHM/AST, nobody would say WHM/AST are OP just because they make up 100% of the representation on FFLogs.

So why is it sch's are preferred? It's simply because sch fits the role better than a noct ast, and in turn a diurnal ast fits the role better than a whm especially in this tier. When one performs better than the other, people naturally prefer it. This is why you see less WHM/AST compared with WHM/SCH combinations, and because ast is better suited to filling in the role of regen healer in this tier (all thanks to their healing kit), you will naturally see more of AST/SCH pairs compared with WHM/SCH again. Add to the fact (as someone has already mentioned before) that sch's and ast's have great synergies with their own abilities and to each other where else WHM doesn't even have synergy to itself and you can see how those numbers came about on FFlogs.

If a tyre on your vehicle suffers from puncture you bring it to a workshop to get it fixed. You do not go and puncture the remaining tyres all so that one tyre doesn't feel left out.

[MoroMurasaki]

Sch "IS" OP, but not for the reasons you are presenting. Sch's having the highest represented number on FFlogs does not make it OP, it just means it is preferred healer. Even if they nerfed sch to the ground to the point it becomes literally unplayable and the only healer compositions you see are WHM/AST, nobody would say WHM/AST are OP just because they make up 100% of the representation on FFLogs.

So why is it sch's are preferred? It's simply because sch fits the role better than a noct ast, and in turn a diurnal ast fits the role better than a whm especially in this tier. When one performs better than the other, people naturally prefer it. This is why you see less WHM/AST compared with WHM/SCH combinations, and because ast is better suited to filling in the role of regen healer in this tier (all thanks to their healing kit), you will naturally see more of AST/SCH pairs compared with WHM/SCH again. Add to the fact (as someone has already mentioned before) that sch's and ast's have great synergies with their own abilities and to each other where else WHM doesn't even have synergy to itself and you can see how those numbers came about on FFlogs.

If a tyre on your vehicle suffers from puncture you bring it to a workshop to get it fixed. You do not go and puncture the remaining tyres all so that one tyre doesn't feel left out.

The circle of buffs only leads to inadvertent and indirect content nerfs. After buffing WHM and AST let's say WHM comes out way ahead of the other healers. By your logic that means we then have to buff AST and SCH to match. Before you know it you've repeated the end of HW with BRD and MCH. I would rather they not do this with the healers which is why I think WHM and SCH need to be brought in line with AST. For WHM that means buffing either it's pDPS or adding rDPS to compensate, for SCH that means forcing some more GCD healing and/or reducing its pDPS or rDPS contribution.

This isn't rocket science.

As for DRK being worse off than WHM - sure. Not talking about DRK though, talking about healer issues.

[jameseoakes]

. I would rather they not do this with the healers which is why I think WHM and SCH need to be brought in line with AST. For WHM that means buffing either it's pDPS or adding rDPS to compensate, for SCH that means forcing some more GCD healing and/or reducing its pDPS or rDPS contribution.

Doesn't that just make AST even more broken as now it's as now able to fill either healer slot while SCH/WHM 'have' to compete for separate slots?

[FalalaMaru]

The circle of buffs only leads to inadvertent and indirect content nerfs. After buffing WHM and AST let's say WHM comes out way ahead of the other healers. By your logic that means we then have to buff AST and SCH to match. Before you know it you've repeated the end of HW with BRD and MCH. I would rather they not do this with the healers which is why I think WHM and SCH need to be brought in line with AST. For WHM that means buffing either it's pDPS or adding rDPS to compensate, for SCH that means forcing some more GCD healing and/or reducing its pDPS or rDPS contribution.

This isn't rocket science.

You misunderstand me when I say "fix" a class, I did not mean a direct "buff". You could buff white mage potency on their dps, hps and even give them a faster gcd and it still would not fix the core problem that whm's have with lilies and plenary. Whm's are by no means the weaker of the 2 healers, in fact it still retains it's identity as the strongest pure healer but it is in dire need of some changes. Looking back both SCHs and ASTs also had their own share of problems :

Excog Quality of life change
Quickened Aetherflow
Fairy spending gauge while not actually healing it's tether target during fey union because target was too far
Lightspeed penalty removal as well as better mp management
Malefic gcd change that resolved all clipping issues
The ability to click cards off again
CU effect being instant now which allows weaving

WHMs also receive some quality of life changes with benison and plenary (iirc) but lilies (even after the buff) still remain as something that could be deleted from the game and would have no impact on WHMs are being played right now. The core design of using lilies as WHMs identity is just bad that it would take a huge buff(WHM)/debuff(SCH/AST) to get it out of its predicament and even then it will just be memed on like SAM/BLM.

[Sunako]

In term of popularity healer balance is way better than any other role right now. DRK only have 14k parses while PLD have 46k. BRD have 44k and MCH only 7k, DRG have 40k parses while MNK only 11k and SMN have 24k parses while blm only 12k. Even at worst spot whm still have 28k parses.

[Eloah]

Okay, regardless of anyone's personal preferences on any of these topics, please stop quoting data that you should not have access to, or if you do cited a source. You are doing more harm than good by giving out info that should only be on the developers side not the players.

[MoroMurasaki]

Okay, regardless of anyone's personal preferences on any of these topics, please stop quoting data that you should not have access to, or if you do cited a source. You are doing more harm than good by giving out info that should only be on the developers side not the players.

The sky high clear rates for SCH are evidence supporting the disparity that I'm talking about. If it bothers you I'm sorry but I'm still glad someone linked them.

If you searched someone's house without a warrant and found a dead body there would still need to be an investigation - just because you "aren't supposed to" have access to that doesn't change the fact that we do and it's a neon sign pointing at jobs like SCH and BRD.

As for WHM being the strongest healer - no, not for Alphascape by a long shot. Even if we write off the massive aggro issues brought on by Cure III it's also less useful than ever in the final fight. People are almost never stacked in o12s. Beyond that WHM has a slower casting, 240-more-mp AoE Regen that heals for a whopping 40 more potency over the duration than Aspected Helios and plenary which is lackluster to say the least.

They could certainly make a fight where WHM in it's current iteration would shine but they have not this tier and to imply it's anything but the absolute weakest choice to bring as a healer is disingenuous.